Spikers, to shoot or not to shoot?

[AlexD]

I have been told many a time, "if you see a spiker, shoot it first because when it fights other bucks in the rut it stabs them in the eyes, face, neck, rather than the tines engaging".
I was out a month ago and saw a spiker fighting with a 3 year old Roe that had a reasonable head - surprisingly the spiker beat the bigger animal: it was in an unsafe location to shoot it, but this evening I saw the spiker out again with a backdrop so dropped the beast.
After the farmer asked, "what's a spiker", I thought about this, and wondered if the advice I used to set my priorities is correct.
Searching online identifies that many US states ban shooting spikers on the basis that if the spiker makes it to the next year, it may have a good rack on its head.
US deer websites state that being a spiker is a 1.5 year to 2.5 year old deer (not sure how 0.5 works out, as Roe are born all at the same time, and never in winter), tends to mean slower growing antlers (they look long to me), perhaps a late born deer (Roe, late born?), poor nutrition (with fields full of crops?), and next year it could be a specimen deer. Spikers I see are small, much smaller than other deer the same age, so nutrition may be a part, or is it just genetics?
What do you think? Is the US advice specific to their deer and their seasons, or is some of it relevant in the UK?
Bottom line should we shoot them on sight, or leave them to mature, while they do their mayhem?

 

[Bugsy]

If it looks in good nick blast it .. good eating in them .. I never let one pass because of this ..

 

[SikaSeeker]

They are probably on about whitetail or elk etc… by the time the hunting season is on the spiker when in hard antler is 1.5 years old give or take. If I decided to let spikers/prickets go, I’d be kicked off my ground, it would want to be a magnificent animal to let walk haha.

 

[wildfowler.250]

I think a lot of people mix up a young roe buck with two spikes with a ‘murder buck’ as they get called which is an older animal with a bigger body but with single spikes/tines - which is a lot more likely to do damage when fighting another deer.

 

[lochty]

It depends on your neighbours attitude. If they're greedy, you might as well shoot them. The deer, not the neighbours. If not, every good buck or stag was a spiker once.

 

[Tim.243]

I have been told many a time, "if you see a spiker, shoot it first because when it fights other bucks in the rut it stabs them in the eyes, face, neck, rather than the tines engaging".
I was out a month ago and saw a spiker fighting with a 3 year old Roe that had a reasonable head - surprisingly the spiker beat the bigger animal: it was in an unsafe location to shoot it, but this evening I saw the spiker out again with a backdrop so dropped the beast.
After the farmer asked, "what's a spiker", I thought about this, and wondered if the advice I used to set my priorities is correct.
Searching online identifies that many US states ban shooting spikers on the basis that if the spiker makes it to the next year, it may have a good rack on its head.
US deer websites state that being a spiker is a 1.5 year to 2.5 year old deer (not sure how 0.5 works out, as Roe are born all at the same time, and never in winter), tends to mean slower growing antlers (they look long to me), perhaps a late born deer (Roe, late born?), poor nutrition (with fields full of crops?), and next year it could be a specimen deer. Spikers I see are small, much smaller than other deer the same age, so nutrition may be a part, or is it just genetics?
What do you think? Is the US advice specific to their deer and their seasons, or is some of it relevant in the UK?
Bottom line should we shoot them on sight, or leave them to mature, while they do their mayhem?

Waiting for the John Hammond "Jurassic Park" genealogist's to pitch in Alex lol
The picture of the Buck I sent you last night!
"Poor Head" I can hear being called from the " back benches" take it's head off and the Game Dealer said "nice clean buck Tim"
Shoot yearling does come Nov 1st he sired last rut Answer "don't know" Game Dealer says "nice clean does Tim"
Just shoot them.

 

[Heym SR20]

A spiker is a young buck or stag that has yet to produce any tines. If it decent in body I would leave for a year or two to see how they develop.

A switch is a mature stag or buck that has never developed anything in the way of times. These are good cull animals.

 

[Tim.243]

A spiker is a young buck or stag that has yet to produce any tines. If it decent in body I would leave for a year or two to see how they develop.

A switch is a mature stag or buck that has never developed anything in the way of times. These are good cull animals.

It didn't take long
Waiting for the John Hammond "Jurassic Park" genealogist's to pitch in Alex lol

 

[Jelen]

I class any spiker thus:
Length below ear tips it's most probably a yearling.
Length above ear tips it's most probably older. If it's a Roe buck I shoot it.
Seems to have worked on my permissions over the last 30 odd years

 

[HonestJohn]

As above

Spikers are yearlings or poor two year olds generally. They don’t fight for territory as Does will not let them cover them until around 3 years old, and prefer older mature bucks. Dominant older bucks simply chase them off, a young spiked will not engage in a knife fight.

A murder buck is an old buck that’s going back and have lost the tines, he has two short thick antlers (generally) and is still fighting fit and dominant, perhaps only for 1-2 years. He will fight the middle aged bucks trying to claim territory and cover the mature Does, and ‘he’ is dangerous, the young spikers, are not.

As for culling practices - some ground will produce mainly spikers due to genetics and food quality, shoot them all and you’ve just ruined your buck population, esp, if you are also shooting mature bucks.

Many red staggies only develop spikes or knobs in their first head, but can produce a good 6pt with even signs of becoming an 8 in the subsequent year. Culling staggies has to be done more on the basis of deer quality and looks, unless there are clear signs of fellow aged beasts with better heads in their herd. August is a great time for locating hind groups with attached staggies, and also bachelor groups of 3+ stags for selecting cull beasts, far more productive than when they break out for the rut.
Switch stags are good cull beasts indeed, but are not to be confused with staggies!

I have ground where I leave spikers of decent size, but cull very small spikers that don’t come out of velvet for example. And ground where a spiker will always be a bad quality beast compared to others, so are an automatic cull choice.
I will always cull a very old murder buck, whether before or after the rut. But many inexperienced stalkers simply can’t tell the difference unfortunately

 

[Shootgun]

This is an old murder buck …

 

[CookM]

 

[CookM]

Both of the above had very worn or missing incisors,they would sting a bit under the ribs at rutting time.

 

[willowbank]

This is an old murder buck …
View attachment 434397

Ouch....

WB

 

[AlexD]

Are you sure they are murder bucks? The pedestals have not grown together like on an old buck. There is a fair bit of pearling, but nowhere near as much as an old buck.
Those heads posted above look pretty well the same in pearling, pedestal and length as the spiker I shot yesterday, who weighed about the same as two fawns I shot a week earlier in the same field after their mother got mown down on the adjoining bypass (saw the two fawns the morning of the RTA, then every day for three days they were still lingering just below the spot of the accident, so on day 3 decided to remove them from their misery).
I note your comment on their worn incisors, which is older animals of course.

 

[CookM]

The bottom one was 38lb l think and the other 32lb.
I have a boundary of NT land and l shot another last year with long,quite flat backed single spikes.
That one was heavy too.
I don't often see a good typical buck,and tend to leave them if healthy.
Not the same as the ones l used to see in Hants when l lived there,but that is diet and the area having a good general standard.

 

[W1LL]

This old bugger I’d been trying to catch out had given younger buck that had wandered in a right hiding, punctured its guts through the side and even gave him another bum hole, Glad I managed to catch up with both of them even if a bit too late.

 

[ahenry34]

Out stalking a few days ago and came across a group of mature red stags

Is I worked my way down the steep hill to get a bit closer this unfortunate gentleman stepped out of a tree line.

I was concerned he would give me away if I tried to get any closer so I took him instead

Really unusual head, what’s our thoughts?
2 year old first set of antlers?

 

[Jelen]

Out stalking a few days ago and came across a group of mature red stags

Is I worked my way down the steep hill to get a bit closer this unfortunate gentleman stepped out of a tree line.

I was concerned he would give me away if I tried to get any closer I took him instead

Really unusual head, what’s our thoughts?
2 year old first set of antlers?

View attachment 434554

A Switch I believe? Good one to cull in my humble opinion, I'd have shot it.
Others may differ