Sport or management?

Norfolk Deer Search

Well-Known Member
So the rules are tightening up, doctors certificates, talk of a lead ban, poor venison prices typical British great white hunter!

I am ridiculed because of my brazen straight talking ‘im alright jack’ attitude!

Can you blame me, we have to justify our existence to continue doing what we love, but while there are those of us who still live in the world of the ‘great white hunter’ we are buggered!

How can we as an industry try to gain support from the public when there are those of us posing publicly on this forum and other social media behind a dead animal with a rifle!

Killing animals for fun is no longer acceptable, management , yes justification can be explained!

Killing for sport has no justification in today’s world

Discuss……..
 

Tim.243

Well-Known Member
So the rules are tightening up, doctors certificates, talk of a lead ban, poor venison prices typical British great white hunter!

I am ridiculed because of my brazen straight talking ‘im alright jack’ attitude!

Can you blame me, we have to justify our existence to continue doing what we love, but while there are those of us who still live in the ‘great white hunter’ we are buggered!

How can we as an industry continue to gain support from the public when there are those of us posing publicly on this forum and other social media behind a dead animal with a rifle!

Killing animals for fun is no longer acceptable, management , yes justification can be explained!

Killing for sport has no justification in today’s world

Discuss……..
Your title is missing a word.... "Activity"
A great deal of us shoot foxes, rabbits, pigeons, rats, corvids, geese when it falls into being necessary.
At the moment we are not shooting pigeons as the market for them to go into the GD is not there.
Corvids are getting into the spring barley so are being shot.
From a lad brought up in the country side dusting off a rifle only once a year to shoot something is an Activity
(like hovering) lol
 

Norfolk Deer Search

Well-Known Member
Your title is missing a word.... "Activity"
A great deal of us shoot foxes, rabbits, pigeons, rats, corvids, geese when it falls into being necessary.
At the moment we are not shooting pigeons as the market for them to go into the GD is not there.
Corvids are getting into the spring barley so are being shot.
From a lad brought up in the country side dusting off a rifle only once a year to shoot something is an Activity
(like hovering) lol
Thats a cracker 😂
 

TH4

Well-Known Member
So the rules are tightening up, doctors certificates, talk of a lead ban, poor venison prices typical British great white hunter!

I am ridiculed because of my brazen straight talking ‘im alright jack’ attitude!

Can you blame me, we have to justify our existence to continue doing what we love, but while there are those of us who still live in the world of the ‘great white hunter’ we are buggered!

How can we as an industry try to gain support from the public when there are those of us posing publicly on this forum and other social media behind a dead animal with a rifle!

Killing animals for fun is no longer acceptable, management , yes justification can be explained!

Killing for sport has no justification in today’s world

Discuss……..
So if you go on a management safari you are not allowed to enjoy it then, incase someone like you thinks they are having fun? I enjoy hunting and I photograph everything I shoot does that make me any different to somebody that shoots things and keeps the fact hidden. Shooting would not be in such a state now if people had stood up to the anti brigade at the start instead of trying to hide our activities from them and hide in the shadows.
 

andyk

Well-Known Member
I don’t think it’s as black and white as “sport” or “management”.

Someone shooting things for no other reason than the thrill of the chase, who simply throws away the carcass and is doing it somewhere there is no need to reduce numbers is a “sport” shooter and I tend to agree that the opportunity/public tolerance for that will not last much longer (if it even still exists).

On the other hand, someone employed purely to hit a cull target is doing “management”, and there will be a role for that for some time I don’t doubt.

There’s a heck of a lot of grey in between. How many people on paid stalks are shooting deer that would have to be culled if not shot by a stalker and client? How many foxes and other vermin are shot by enthusiasts who do it for free because they enjoy the hunt but which would need controlling if those people didn’t do it? What about someone who shoots the odd deer for the pot somewhere where there is no particular need for a cull target?

In relation to the latter, there seem quite a few (more open minded) vegetarians and vegans who view that as preferable to eating farmed meat.

The others would be replaced by management if not done, so stopping them wouldn’t “save” anything. If it’s a good earner for the landowner, or saves them the cost of a pro, why not let an amateur do it? It’s less efficient but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense.

Everything that is in the “grey” could still have a future if properly presented.

I saw the other day that even George Monbiot has accepted the case for properly managed trophy hunting, so it’s not over until it’s over!

What I think many object to in your posts on similar subjects is an attitude of “I’ve had it good for a while so don’t care what happens now” that does seem selfish. I’m not convinced that actually is your attitude, reading between the lines, but can certainly see how it could be interpreted that way. As an attitude, I’m not saying it’s yours, it’s pretty repugnant.
 

NigelM

Well-Known Member
I think you're spot on Lee, but would widen it very slightly. To 99% of the people I meet shooting for management and shooting to put food on the table is perfectly acceptable. Shooting live quarry for sport (fun) or for the trophy is not. Where I live there are deer everywhere and the RTA's are far too common - people are almost grateful that you are out trying to keep the numbers down a bit. Even the wider non countryside public are now understanding that deer need managing for the most part but mention trophy hunting and you have an argument on your hands.

But I am still allowed to enjoy it.

Same applies to bird shooting. Small shoots where the quarry is taken by the guns and the beaters and eaten is mostly acceptable - certainly defendable. More acceptable if it's wild bird, less so if they are put down. Big bag shoots which really are sport for the wealthy who rarely pick anything up or take anything home are getting very close to their sell by date. As is putting down 60 million non native birds into the environment. I have trouble defending that.

The attitude of some that "we've been doing it for generations and don't give a toss what the wider public think - it's our right" is what will knacker us. We have to bend with public opinion as it's the public that are the voters and the politicians who make the rules will be swayed by them. We might not like it but that's democracy for you - the majority win. We have to present ourselves so what we do is acceptable to that majority.

And yes, you are a bit brazen and pretty tunnelled visioned at times :rofl:

Open your mind, embrace other opinions and try to be a little more diplomatic......
 
So the rules are tightening up, doctors certificates, talk of a lead ban, poor venison prices typical British great white hunter!

I am ridiculed because of my brazen straight talking ‘im alright jack’ attitude!

Can you blame me, we have to justify our existence to continue doing what we love, but while there are those of us who still live in the world of the ‘great white hunter’ we are buggered!

How can we as an industry try to gain support from the public when there are those of us posing publicly on this forum and other social media behind a dead animal with a rifle!

Killing animals for fun is no longer acceptable, management , yes justification can be explained!

Killing for sport has no justification in today’s world

Discuss……..
Calling it sport is always going to be the problem
 

PorkChops

Well-Known Member
Killing for sport has no justification in today’s world

Discuss……..
Killing purely for sport has no place today. Shooting something just because you can and being pleased about it is wrong.

In the case of deer management, the objective is surely to have in place effective deer management for sustainable populations. The only way we can achieve the sustainability is by taking proper account of the balance of economic, environmental and social impacts, both + and -ve. If we just focus on one aspect, we risk not being able to make any progress. We have to work with all 3 aspects: we need to combine the needs of landowners, farmers, foresters, nature conservationists, environmentalists, the public, neighbours, walkers etc. If we don't then we don't have proper planned justification for deer culling.
 

Klenchblaize

Well-Known Member
I feel there is a fundamental issue in play here that at least needs to be considered as part of any answer to the Op’s question.

Simply put there needs to be some honesty about the taking of any creature’s life and specifically the frill and fulfilment (I resisted the term copper-plated pleasure) enjoyed by the hunter when the life blood🩸spills from their quarry as a result of a well-placed environmentally friendly projectile.

My point being I’m not aware of a deer management gene 🧬 but most certainly believe we all still retain one that compels us to hunt, albeit such burns brighter in some more than others.

The day I feel nothing but remorse when making eye contact with a beast I’ve just slain is the day I’ll handover all my shooting permissions to someone on here with a qualification in wildlife management and a sworn statement they take zero pleasure from pulling the trigger and watching a beast collapse in the bracken. In short they must convince me that for them there is no frill in the chase.

K
 

Norfolk Deer Search

Well-Known Member
Killing purely for sport has no place today. Shooting something just because you can and being pleased about it is wrong.

In the case of deer management, the objective is surely to have in place effective deer management for sustainable populations. The only way we can achieve the sustainability is by taking proper account of the balance of economic, environmental and social impacts, both + and -ve. If we just focus on one aspect, we risk not being able to make any progress. We have to work with all 3 aspects: we need to combine the needs of landowners, farmers, foresters, nature conservationists, environmentalists, the public, neighbours, walkers etc. If we don't then we don't have proper planned justification for deer culling.
Spot on !
 

Basil H

Well-Known Member
The OP uses the emotive phrase "killing for fun". This is the language of those who oppose what we do.
It trivialises and diminishes the act of hunting which can be a deep and meaningful part of life for many.

One of the native American chiefs said something to the effect that "when the buffalo have gone we will have to hunt mice".
 
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