Stainless Steel Shotguns
- Thread starter ciscokid
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deerstalker.308
Well-Known Member
Quick google shows plenty
I think it doesn't per se offer any advantage that, say, chrome lining the bores does better. Stainless action maybe makes some benefit but stainless barrels I can't, as said, not think that chrome lining isn't a better fix.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
There have been plenty of attempts, including the likes of the Valmet, then Tikka and now Marochi 512 over and under shotgun system. But the problem with stainless is that it is more brittle and stiffer than chrome moly. This is no problem in a rifle barrel where your barrel wall is severall mm thick, but in a shotgun you barrel walls need to be a lot thinner for balance and weight purposes and here it is much more difficult to make a barrel has the toughness and springyness of chrome moly steel and able able to withstand every day use. Also a rifle barrel is usually just a tube that is then threaded to fit the action and it is not a complex structure with lots of bits and pieces added to it.
The way that shotgun barrels are manufactured with ribs etc being joined on also poses a real challenge. Mostly barrels and ribs are soldered / brazed together and you cannot solder / braze stainless very well. The alternatives are either high strength epoxies or welding - both of which have their challenges. I suppose you could machine the barrels from a solid billet of stainless - like the Longthorne Gun, but they have the patent covering this.
For semi Autos / pumps - well here the use alloy / polymers / ceramic coatings and chrome linings to achieve the same result at much less cost.
The way that shotgun barrels are manufactured with ribs etc being joined on also poses a real challenge. Mostly barrels and ribs are soldered / brazed together and you cannot solder / braze stainless very well. The alternatives are either high strength epoxies or welding - both of which have their challenges. I suppose you could machine the barrels from a solid billet of stainless - like the Longthorne Gun, but they have the patent covering this.
For semi Autos / pumps - well here the use alloy / polymers / ceramic coatings and chrome linings to achieve the same result at much less cost.
Apart from the manufacturing problems, generally shotguns and bling really don't go together too well. A bit of nice wood and some nice but traditional engraving is about it. I think over time there have been the odd stainless gun and also chrome ones. But I think unless you are a rapper or maybe fairly high up in the drugs business there's not much call for them. Every now and again, one of the big manufacturers comes out with a moderately radical new design for a shotgun and mostly, they quietly die away. It's not too long ago that having the barrels on top of one another was seen to be outrageous! Definitely evolution rather than revolution and even the evolution is slow.
As Napoleon III said (of the Mitrailleuse apparently as the French deployed it as a gun rather than a machine gun) "Any invention ahead of its time is useless...".
What problem is it that a stainless steel gun can solve ?
It's hardly difficult to look after one that can go rusty if neglected. As can SS things, these aren't made of marine grade alloys that can survive years at sea without maintenance. Oh no. They are not made of such stuff.
Give me a shotgun made with good old steel, chrome plated bore, nickel plate outside, and I'd say thats pretty much as good as it gets.
As for Longthorne tying down their design with patents, well maybe somehow they have got away with that, but I suspect it would not stand up to the most rudimentary challenge. Not that that is likely, because it is an enormously expensive way of making guns, last time I looked it took a 14 kg billet of exotic steel to make the barrels for one shotgun. The chap, operating the factory, on the video seemed proud of that. Perhaps he would have been even more chuffed if it took a 28 kg billet.
The rest presumably swarf.
If I had the sort of money to buy such a thing, I'd rather it went to a "best" gunmaker, then distributed to the employees, apprentices, subcontractors, engravers, stockmakers etc. sustaining a long tradition of skills, tradition. employment, etc.
Rather than go to somebody with the resources and ideas to blow away all of that with great CNC stuff, but no soul, and minimal employees. I'm sure it is a superb bit of sterile engineering, but utterly missing the point of what makes a shotgun characterful. And affordable. And sustains an enduring tradition of craft, skill, employment, and heritage.
Even their nice stocks are churned out on CNC. The man was complaining that decent wood was getting scarce. Oh dear. Maybe time to learn how to replicate wood with polymers, and get improved performance. Then slap on a coat of some pseudo coating to please traditionalists. Oops, already been going on for many years elsewhere.
Even the "engraving" is just done by laser. Original designs by artists commissioned, then copied into the machine laser programming. Well that is what I have heard (from an embittered engraver who worked on a few in the early days and saw her art ripped off after the first few).
It's hardly difficult to look after one that can go rusty if neglected. As can SS things, these aren't made of marine grade alloys that can survive years at sea without maintenance. Oh no. They are not made of such stuff.
Give me a shotgun made with good old steel, chrome plated bore, nickel plate outside, and I'd say thats pretty much as good as it gets.
As for Longthorne tying down their design with patents, well maybe somehow they have got away with that, but I suspect it would not stand up to the most rudimentary challenge. Not that that is likely, because it is an enormously expensive way of making guns, last time I looked it took a 14 kg billet of exotic steel to make the barrels for one shotgun. The chap, operating the factory, on the video seemed proud of that. Perhaps he would have been even more chuffed if it took a 28 kg billet.
The rest presumably swarf.
If I had the sort of money to buy such a thing, I'd rather it went to a "best" gunmaker, then distributed to the employees, apprentices, subcontractors, engravers, stockmakers etc. sustaining a long tradition of skills, tradition. employment, etc.
Rather than go to somebody with the resources and ideas to blow away all of that with great CNC stuff, but no soul, and minimal employees. I'm sure it is a superb bit of sterile engineering, but utterly missing the point of what makes a shotgun characterful. And affordable. And sustains an enduring tradition of craft, skill, employment, and heritage.
Even their nice stocks are churned out on CNC. The man was complaining that decent wood was getting scarce. Oh dear. Maybe time to learn how to replicate wood with polymers, and get improved performance. Then slap on a coat of some pseudo coating to please traditionalists. Oops, already been going on for many years elsewhere.
Even the "engraving" is just done by laser. Original designs by artists commissioned, then copied into the machine laser programming. Well that is what I have heard (from an embittered engraver who worked on a few in the early days and saw her art ripped off after the first few).
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Thank you gentlemen for your replies. So it seems the reasons l have not seen a stainless steel shotgun in this country on
a driven shoot,
1. Stainless steel shotgun unlikely to be available in side by side or over and under format ( at reasonable price ).
2. A stainless shotgun, pump or semi-auto rejected as not acceptable at most formal driven days.
Clay shoots, majority use over & under.
Wildfower, pigeon shooters, (expense)?
Hence none for sale on gun shop racks.
a driven shoot,
1. Stainless steel shotgun unlikely to be available in side by side or over and under format ( at reasonable price ).
2. A stainless shotgun, pump or semi-auto rejected as not acceptable at most formal driven days.
Clay shoots, majority use over & under.
Wildfower, pigeon shooters, (expense)?
Hence none for sale on gun shop racks.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Brain has finally clicked over. I remember from Double Gun Journal, which I used to subscribe to, there is Swedish Maker of Stainless over and unders.
The are called Flodman and Flodman gives more details. They do look rather elegant with a very innovative action built from titanium and stainless steel as well. They put themselves in same league as Hasslebled Cameras so won't be cheap.
The are called Flodman and Flodman gives more details. They do look rather elegant with a very innovative action built from titanium and stainless steel as well. They put themselves in same league as Hasslebled Cameras so won't be cheap.
Oh! SHARPIE that's a bit harsh. Or forthright.
I've always held that the best looking weapons, be they sporting or for war, are where form follows function. The Colt 1911 to me being the acme of pistol design. I showed mine many four decades ago to a friend of my father who had been a metalworker using lathes and milling machines and such. He handled it, turned it in his hand, manipulated it. Then spoke. "There's not a cut or a line or a piece on this thing that isn't needed. It's perfect."
Longthorne is an heir to Cogswell & Harrison belief in that it's the last stroke of the file that's important. The last few thousandths of an inch.
Does the Longthorne sidelock gun have "soul"? I don't know. But with reference only to that side-by-side to my mind if I want a machine made gun then there are cheaper choices. If I want a bespoke made gun there are "nicer" choices. It doesn't do anything for me as it isn't stocked to the fences. I want in a "best" sidelock stocked to the fences not something that looks like a German sidelock. If not that then I'll choose a boxlock in preference.
I've always held that the best looking weapons, be they sporting or for war, are where form follows function. The Colt 1911 to me being the acme of pistol design. I showed mine many four decades ago to a friend of my father who had been a metalworker using lathes and milling machines and such. He handled it, turned it in his hand, manipulated it. Then spoke. "There's not a cut or a line or a piece on this thing that isn't needed. It's perfect."
Longthorne is an heir to Cogswell & Harrison belief in that it's the last stroke of the file that's important. The last few thousandths of an inch.
Does the Longthorne sidelock gun have "soul"? I don't know. But with reference only to that side-by-side to my mind if I want a machine made gun then there are cheaper choices. If I want a bespoke made gun there are "nicer" choices. It doesn't do anything for me as it isn't stocked to the fences. I want in a "best" sidelock stocked to the fences not something that looks like a German sidelock. If not that then I'll choose a boxlock in preference.
Good old John Moses Browning.
Superposed and Auto 5, another two works by the grand master.
Not been that much advancement of note since those I think.
Innovation lets praise it, the Flodman is a beautiful looking gun as is the Purdey, damascus-gun, are they for me – that hypothetical my pockets aren’t deep enough and as yet I haven’t handled one.
Not all innovation produces commercial success, but that applies to every field of human activity.
Not all innovation produces commercial success, but that applies to every field of human activity.
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