stalking rights/ permissions?

#1
it is now 2 full years since my first solo kill with my .243! i am incredibly fortunate to have the permission to shot on a cotswold estate full of fallow, muntjac and a few roe. i have been a beater for 15 years on the estate starting very young. so progression from rabbits with the air rifle has lead me to deer and center fires. but i am not the only stalker, there are a number of other chaps that shoot the deer on the estate under the guidance of the gamekeeper
but i am now wanting to have my own little patch where i make all the cull plans and it is my responsiblity.
could members comment on there experiences on getting permissions, plus any advice would be very much welcomed
toby
 

Willie

Well-Known Member
#2
Hi Toby,

I moved from Scotland to the North of England about 10 years ago and despite having loads of references found it very difficult to get stalking permission anywhere local. I kept on my syndicate in Fife and Beattock and have only recently got the chance of joining a syndicate in the Borders.

Getting a shoot of your own is going to be expensive, anything from £2-£5/acre depending on the type and number of deer. Think yourself very lucky to have the stalking you have - keep in with the game keeper.

Willie
 
#3
please dont get me wrong, im not trying to be greedy! im just wanting to further my knowledge and experiences of deer management.
toby
 
#4
To be honest Toby there is only one way to get stalking........

knock on as many farmers doors as you can, eventually one will agree. You could also try advertising by putting up a card in the local agricultural suppliers. Don't put your home number on it though as you may get the odd anti phone call ;)
 

Blaser3006

Well-Known Member
#5
reply

I know of a couple of stalkers that have thousands of acres tied up in their name and they will not let it go even though they never stalk it, they just cannot bring themselves to share. Does make it hard for the rest of us.

It is a very selfish act but it's happening all over you'll find! :mad:
 

wadashot

Account Suspended
#6
stalking permission

Hi there,

I would like to add my views on getting permission.
I have been stalking for 15 years, and to be fair i have had the odd little bit of ground in different parts of the country without having to pay the landowners a kings ransome, and to be fair i have shot my fair share of deer. During my time i have done both D.M.Qs , and have also done contract work for the forestry commission in Scotland, but i am getting increasingly frustrated with posting letters, e-mails, and also putting saturdays/sundays to one side to go go door knocking like last w-end to find that there seems to be nothing left to get. I would also like to ask the question, how do some people manage to bag tens of thousands of acres of prime stalking ground like some of the adds in shooting times, these people must be paying way over the odds, which in my mind has got only 1 outcome, they are going to end up pricing many stalkers out and create a stalking only affordable by kings. Plenty more to say, but thats my gripe done for the moment, what do you guys think?
 

john.d.m

Well-Known Member
#7
Toby,good luck !
Just be yourself and be genuine with the landowners.don`t take on more than you can handle, and be honest with the landowners .
I got a v one of the best patches in the country for certain species and I had a so called "friend" who I had got the permission with me, try to nick it off me behind my back,but he came unstuck as the landowner, told him to he was happy as it was,dealing with it through me.I was so lucky that I`d been straight with the farmer there ! And the so called "friend" is a leading member of a local deer management society !!!!!! I resigned as secretary from the society as soon as the farmer told me what had happened !
As I moving away soon,I have given it to a very good friend who is a 100% bloke, he`s worth giving it to !( dont let it go to yer head Blaser 3006 !!!)
The 3 types of "stalkers" (and I use that term loosley) who seem to have the large acreages are either, 1.folks with loads of £ or 2. arseholes who nick it, shoot it out (with no thoughts of management) and move on.or 3, genuine stalkers who care about management.
The trouble is, alot of landowners aren`t too concerned with management, as the have a problem with wildlife and want it dealt with,so they have whoever relieves their problems quickest !
In my area, it`s quite difficult to interest a farmer in cull plans, he just sees alot of deer or whatever and wants them got rid of, so, you may have to be seen to pleaseing the farmer first and operate your own cull plan quietly ,not trying to get the farmer involved with it. And as long as the farmer can see your doing something and you get on ok with him, (a joint of meat now and again doesn`t go amiss) you should be ok.
As for the antis, I drove a cattle truck all over Europe for best part of 20 yrs and I always found the easiest way to deal with them is to ask them to explain their argument in a civilized manner..... They can`t !!!!
all they can do is bawl and shout, don`t be scared of them, if you are, they are winning ! I`ll never let those prats win neither will I let the arsehole stalkers win either !!!!!
 
B

Bradley

Guest
#8
john.d.m said:
As for the antis, I drove a cattle truck all over Europe for best part of 20 yrs and I always found the easiest way to deal with them is to ask them to explain their argument in a civilized manner..... They can`t !!!!
all they can do is bawl and shout, don`t be scared of them, if you are, they are winning ! I`ll never let those prats win neither will I let the arsehole stalkers win either !!!!!
I take it you met a lot of antis whilst driving your cattle truck in Europe for 20 years, then?
 

apollo

Well-Known Member
#9
John you are very right, those of us who have a small bit of stalking and dont pay for it will never have the best shooting but you make what you can of it.
Me and my mate had loads of lamping ground for years in areas with no deer, then we got one small place of only 90 acres, now within 18 months we have five adjoining farms and have shoot 11 deer off them since last october, all through word of mouth and helping out with a bit of manual labour, it can be done....
 
B

Bradley

Guest
#10
That is often the way.

I also think you appreciate it more. Its has nothing to do with the size of your cheque book. It has everything to do with you as a person.

There are exceptions to every rule of course.

I know of a couple of shooting rights leases that have never been sold to the highest bidder. The decision has always been made on the basis of what the individual was like.

I also know where a small patch of stalking was given to the most disreputable man you're ever likely to meet. As the estate decided it was better to know where he was at any given time, than to have to keep chasing him out of the forest.
 

rh120

Well-Known Member
#12
I,ve been stalking for 20 yrs or so. with the same mate and we have helped a few lad,s over the years. We used to have a fair amount of stalking/lamping ground probibly about 5000 acres to cover but only the marches where the ground met the forestry plantations were any good for stalking.But as the years have past land has been sold and as was said before in other replies dirty tricks and lies have been told sadly to our loss. Stalking must be one of the most greedy sports to get involved in" what,s mine is mine and i want more and no i won,t share it even if i can,t cover the ground and do a proper job" and yes unfortunatly money plays a big part. We have been in syndicates and have been ripped of a couple of times and that,s sad because we are only a pair of working lads so the money is not free flowing. Just the other day my mate got a reply from a local land owner with whom my mate had presented a nicely packeged portfolio only to discover that he had shown it along with my mate,s cash offer to his pheasant syndicate who had no interest in the deer{ up until now} and who we wanted to work along with an freely admited it was to get more money out of the syndicate that shot the pheasants so every one was a looser except the greedy land owner, if i.m aloud by law i would gladly name and shame him so as honest folk can steer well clear of him and when these people are exposed stalking will be a fairer and better sport.Unfortunatly it has cost the other syndicate £1200 a year more sorry lads but as i said before greed greed greed| :oops: :lol:
 
B

Bradley

Guest
#13
john.d.m said:
Yes I have Bradley,at Shoreham,Dover etc
I thought you meant anti hunting protesters and when you were in Europe.

Not anti livestock export protesters at UK docks.

Same species I agree but not quite the same animal. ;)
 

john.d.m

Well-Known Member
#14
Anti is a Anti in my book Bradley.
If you look into actions of both groups, anti hunting and anti livestock groups, they work on who shouts loudest and creates "fear" amongst law abiding people by using intimidation, threatening behaviour,and out and out threats.
Alot of them wouldn`t know one end of a fox from another,it`s just a day out with a packed lunch (some groups even pay students to protest).
When I can talk to a "protester" and have a civilised conversation without them shouting and screaming will be the day I will give some time.
And yes I have been on the recieving end of the threats and abuse.
I have to say a day that sticks in my mind was when I pulled out of Gloucester market with a load of cattle on, not for export,they were going to Bridgewater.
The antis were shouting and screaming, so I stopped on the side of the road ( legally parked) and asked them to tell me their concerns,all I got was abuse then stunned silenced when I answered all their claims calmly and truthfully.They were shocked the cattle were in a £140,000 air conditioned trailer and being looked after.
They were grieved to actually admit they were impressed how we were doing it, and they were being paid to be there and wish they hadnt took the money.
Then the police told me to move on as I could be done for causing a disturbance???? This is one of the great anomolies of the English justice systems, a legal bloke going about his work and offering advice to ill informed people can be done when protesters cant and seem to get more protection by the law !!
Sorry to wander off from the subject of this thread,but I know some people on here think I may be a bit different but hey we all are, I do enjoy life and like to laff and joke,but I have a serious side too, and this subject does get my goat a bit !
I not going into the rights and wrongs of hunting, live export ,angling, pheasant shooting,stalking etc etc,there are cleverer people than me to put cases for all.
My stand on all of these things and more is I do believe in FREEDOM OF CHOICE, and we are losing that nowadays.
 

wadashot

Account Suspended
#15
stalking permission

Reply to rh120

I agree with you fully rh120, stalking is one of the most back stabbing and clicky sports to get into, with people trying to poach your ground of you for more money which the greedy landowner is more willing to take nowadays. I myself have helped people get into stalking by writing letters for them to get there licence or writtien competence letters to have there licence opened up, but have never had the favour returned, not that it was done for a favour, i do like to help people out, but it would be nice to think that in such a competative pastime people would stick together instead of hogging as many acres as possible for themselves. GREEDY SODS.
 
M

malcolm

Guest
#16
I agree with the many comments posted about greedy and back stabbing. Having been in this game for a long time and built up a small business based on honesty and integrity, it never ceases to amaze me what people will do to take land off you.

Finding stalking these days is very hard, and one usually finds that the ground you have lined up is already taken by the most undesirable person you could find. I feel for those younger people who do not have the chances they deserve.

About 5 years ago I gave a weeks stalking on a lease of 12000 acres I manged in Scotland. Both Reds and Sika were in abundance. The offer was made free of charge for a young shot with BASC. I am of the mind that not enough is done to encourage young people into the sport all of us in this forum love and if needs be will defend to the bitter end. However it took 2 years before BASC took up the offer. I am no longer a supporter of BASC, I prefer to support BDS and the Gamekeepers Association.

What I will say is that I am prepared to offer an opportunity to a member of this forum who has no stalking, or very little chance of going out, the chance to come out with me this winter for maybe a week on Sika hinds in Scotland. Or a weekend in Dorset. The only cost will be food and accommodation.

Come on the rest of you, lets help out some of these people, if we dont take care of our own, no one else will do it for us.

You can get me through the forum, or email my website www.ukoutfitters.co.uk
 
#18
What I will say is that I am prepared to offer an opportunity to a member of this forum who has no stalking, or very little chance of going out, the chance to come out with me this winter for maybe a week on Sika hinds in Scotland. Or a weekend in Dorset. The only cost will be food and accommodation.
this is exactly the type of help new stalkers need. not be told to buy a cd then take an exam, then told they are a deer stalker.
malcolm that is a fantastic offer that would teach the pupil so many more vital lessons, than an inpersonal course.
toby
 
M

malcolm

Guest
#19
Thanks Toby, you are right buying a CD will not teach you to become a stalker. I have been very luckY, I was taught to stalk by a kind, patient considerate man, who lives in Scotland, but comes from northern England.

I still see him every year, and through a certain amount of luck i have met many more like him. In fact I have just lost one of my dearest friends in America, who I have been honoured to hunt with on three different continents, and am proud to say that I guided both him and his son for their first Red Stag.

This is what makes this sport head and shoulders above everything else to me. The friendships you make can last forever, and it is us as professional and semi professional stalkers that need to lead the way and welcome newcomers, and teach younger people the skills and tricks of the trade. As I have said before, if we want the sport we love to carry on, then its down to all of us to do something about it.
 

rh120

Well-Known Member
#20
hurdles

Sorry pete e that is putting hurdles in the way again all this cert crap, be honest it is a money makeing racket who do you know that has bought a rifle then went out stalking without any knoledge of the deer they are trying to shoot, yes the fc land should be opened up because at the end of the day it belongs to us the tax payer.
 

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