That is shocking! 18k down here!
Well done you, lucky you could afford it!
Starmer preps us for reaming
- Thread starter Rake Aboot
- Start date
Well done you, lucky you could afford it!
I think it's going to be very difficult to get our economy going when the nett zero targets mean manufacturing energy costs are so high.
We need to make stuff to sell.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
We need to be manufacturing the means to produce nett zero energy. This is what the US are doing - they are making their own wind turbines, batteries and solar panels.
We had a nascent industry producing wind turbines, solar etc. we never invested in it. Instead all our renewables are using Danish and German (Vestas and Siemens) Wind Turbines being set up in farms by the likes of EDF (electricity de france) and solar is mostly imported from China.
Now that costs of renewables have come right down energy costs are getting lower.
Another area is medical products. We have the science to develop world class products. Indeed we have many early stage biotech companies clustered around our leading universities. What we lack are two things
1) A regulatory body, that regulates clinical trials etc, that is recognised by other countries
2) a domestic health service that is prepared to adopt new break throughs and use them at an early stage. Instead we have pretty much just one agency - the NHS which has just one central clinical approval NICE.
Not so long ago the UK was a leader in early stage medicine. The European Medicines Authority was based in London. The biotech and clinical research industry was in the UK, you did the clinical trials in UK and European hospitals, all coordinated out of London, and once you had your approvals drugs were approved right across both the UK and Europe. In most of Europe the buying decisions rest with the clinicians rather than a centralised NHS as is the case in the UK, so early adoption and revenues are that much easier. And EMA approval is recognised globally and thus EMA approval immediately spring boards you into most of the rest of the world - in particular North America.
We gave this all away. Now for UK medical companies there is little point in doing clinical studies in the UK. You spend £30m and you only have access to UK market. MHRA ( the UK regulatory body) trials are not recognised by the EU, nor for that matter anywhere else in the world.
Instead the centre of clinical trials is now in Amsterdam to where the EMA is now headquartered. Spend €30m on trials and you have a global market. And once you have the global market you spend a bit of money to do the UK trial.
Business and capital is free to move, and will move to where the best return on investment happens to be. Venture Capital funding into UK biotech is now 1/3 of what it was (in both numbers of deals and amount invested). Most of the promising science is being funded, but the companies are being taken straight to Europe for doing all the trials work.
Part of the clinical trials is building the manufacturing protocols, and again UK is no longer recognised anywhere else. So companies will be setting up manufacturing in their main markets.
I totally agree we need to make things to sell. But by cutting off our ability to sell into the EU, and by consequence all the other territories with which the EU has reciprocal relations, we have left ourselves competing on world trade terms.
This now means that we are competing directly with the likes of India, China, Brazil and South Africa. These all have a very much lower cost base and labour rates to the UK, and are rapidly catching up if not overtaking us in terms of technology and skills.
So take an icon of British Manufacturing - Jaguar Land Rover. Yes they still are UK headquartered, have a design bureau in the West Midlands along with a manufacturing base. But the new Defender is being made in Europe, and they are building facilities in India and China to make their products for Indian and Asian markets. And of course JLR is wholly owned by TATA which is an Indian conglomerate.
Ineos Grenadier - another example.
I have another client that is on the automotive, precision engineering, aerospace supply chain. A few years ago they had 200 staff in the UK producing £20m of revenue selling around the world.
As their client switched overseas there was a need to be within the EU. They now have 250 staff in Europe, 5 in UK and are doing over €30m. Quite a bit of their product is being used in the UK - by European companies building all our windfarms.
The reasons for all this, is the UK standards are not recognised overseas. And if you want to sell to other markets you need to make to customer requirements.
However our powers that be have taken the view that UK standards (even though they were equivalent to EU and this much of the rest of the world) are the best in the world, and johnny foreigner should just recognise them. And we can’t agree that they are equivalent as that would hinder UK sovereignty.
So we are at a standoff where British companies are no longer competitive and no longer able to make products that meet customer standards.
And if and when we do our export bureaucracy just throws yet more layers of blue tape in the way.
So one gentleman I know well had a really good little business employing 40 odd people making high quality sausage type products that were selling right across Europe. His customers being the delicatessen’s and direct to public. His factory and processes meet all the EU standards, but as its in the UK and not Northern Ireland, it’s not recognised as such. Now every consignment has to be accompanied by veterinary certification for 75% of his customers. This is totally uneconomic and effectively doubles the cost of each consignment. He has cut his workforce down to less than 10.
However as we are frequently told this is the democratic will of the people. Frankly unless the new government gets its head out of its backside and stops worrying about what Farage etc will shout about on GB news we on a very slippery slope downwards and we will not just be the poor man of Europe.
And immigration won’t be a problem. Our young people are already seeking opportunities elsewhere.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Lack of freedom of movement is also seriously hindering British businesses ability to do business in Europe. The ability to move to staff around without all the BS of having to get visas is paramount.
Much of UK export is skills and advisory work. Those of us with just UK passports are pretty much useless now to firms that are working across Europe. Those with joint EU and UK passports are being paid a premium.
So my niece (with a UK and French passport) - a new graduate is on a starting salary of £35k working in a design business with offices in UK and France. My daughter, same age, better qualified and more experience was due to start in another design business with operations in UK and Portugal - they want her to work in both places. But she just has a UK passport and too much hassle to get a portuguese visa - they have been trying for three months - so are taking on a dual national instead.
Much of UK export is skills and advisory work. Those of us with just UK passports are pretty much useless now to firms that are working across Europe. Those with joint EU and UK passports are being paid a premium.
So my niece (with a UK and French passport) - a new graduate is on a starting salary of £35k working in a design business with offices in UK and France. My daughter, same age, better qualified and more experience was due to start in another design business with operations in UK and Portugal - they want her to work in both places. But she just has a UK passport and too much hassle to get a portuguese visa - they have been trying for three months - so are taking on a dual national instead.
Immigration is costing us a fortune. Labour are now implementing operation scatter,this involves moving all immigrants out of hotels and into all cities over the country. Each council will be given so many to house this will include putting a lot of them into social housing 
.
The kicker here for us is we will be still paying for them as once given accommodation to live in they get it for free, yes free. They get instant access to free dentists straight way,phones paid for,free driving lessons and here in wales they can claim for free Welsh lessons
No wonder the country is fooked and we have no money. This alone is gonna cost many billions of pounds.
.The kicker here for us is we will be still paying for them as once given accommodation to live in they get it for free, yes free. They get instant access to free dentists straight way,phones paid for,free driving lessons and here in wales they can claim for free Welsh lessons
No wonder the country is fooked and we have no money. This alone is gonna cost many billions of pounds.
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
Sweat FA I'd say
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
If you believe in Net Zero, I've got a bridge to sell you smack bang in the middle of the capital.
If you think energy is getting cheaper, let everyone know where to swap their providers to.
Swapping our energy risk exposure from OPEC+ to China? Let me get back to you on that one.
There is NO energy transition, only political guff.
Rasputin
Well-Known Member
Sounds like an excuse from that company. I could have a Portuguese visa in a matter of days.
Don’t agree with anything you have wrote and that’s in a full blown professional capacity plenty of us have and continue to do business daily globally and not just in EU.
bowji john
Well-Known Member
Starmer says ambitious reset with Europe will not mean reversing Brexit
Reminds me of Harold Wilson’s address where he said that
“just because the pound has been devalued, it doesn’t mean that the pound in your pocket is worth any less”
He was lying then and Two Tier Kier is lying now
….
If this country’s economy is in tatters, Labour won’t put it right
Their entire direction of travel is inflationary; anti business; promotion of big state; non wealth producing job creation and an utterly absurd energy policy
They always planned to steal from the middle classes in order to pursue a socialist wet dream - they just didn’t tell the voters
Once they have stripped the assets from the middle class, they will have to borrow more
As all their policies are inflationary they will not be able to do so on the open markets
… Dear IMF - can you chuck us a bob or two? …
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Don’t worry, our energy exposure is already there to lots of overseas companies such as EDF etc. No chance of your electric bills going down as they are being allowed to reap huge profits, ditto for all our other utilities. UK householders are funding overseas corporations, pension funds and sovereign wealth funds.
I do laugh at how Labour are getting all the blame, especially as they have only been in power for a couple of months, and the previous Tory administration has held the reigns for the last 14 years.
And Labour came to power thanks to a general election and the will of the people - democracy at work again.
As for the black hole in the budget: - HS2, PPE procurement and likes of Lady Mone, Rwanda Scheme, cost overruns on Aircraft Carriers and other major procurement, cost of private finance being used to fund schools, hospitals, prisons, roads etc., the Rwanda Scheme
And yet all anybody can focus is the cost of refugees in Hotels. They are only there because their claims are not processed. A large proportion will have legitimate claims for asylum and will quickly get into the work force and fund themselves and pay taxes.
Yes there are illegal migrants, but its a small percentage of the overall record levels of migration that happened under the previous administration from the poorer parts of the world and not Europe.
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Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Have a read of this
www.theguardian.com
Britain could be a sci-tech superpower – if the Treasury stopped holding it back | Will Hutton
The UK has the research base, the startups, the venture capitalists, but its presence in the global market is pitiful. The chancellor must step in
www.theguardian.com
bowji john
Well-Known Member
They both can share the blame
The Cons stopped governing after 2016
T May even tried to throw the election rather than enact Brexit
Parliament has been working against British National interests since then
It really doesn’t matter anymore about voting as Parliament no longer follows the will of the British people
I do wonder just what will happen in the near future when taxes and rampant inflation destroys people’s hopes and ambitions
The Cons stopped governing after 2016
T May even tried to throw the election rather than enact Brexit
Parliament has been working against British National interests since then
It really doesn’t matter anymore about voting as Parliament no longer follows the will of the British people
I do wonder just what will happen in the near future when taxes and rampant inflation destroys people’s hopes and ambitions
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Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Yes of course you can get a visa in a matter of a few days if you have a few hundred thousand to spend and get an investment visa.
But getting visas to take junior staff down to do a short term job is a very different matter. It takes time and effort - all of which costs money and embuggerance.
Rasputin
Well-Known Member
Well a junior staff member shouldn’t even be allowed for a visa. Visa should be for highly skilled experienced professionals who add significant value. A junior staff member looking for a cushy lifestyle gig in digital design is of no value to a country if we’re honest when compared to a proper professional.
Portugal literally has digital nomad style visa which cost bigger all and can be done quickly.
It’s more Brexit sour grapes talking the UK down instead of up.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
All very interesting, but it was the veracity of your claims in post #143 which I was calling into question, your comments suggesting Net Zero is a matter worthy of pursuit is clearly mistaken given the basic physical, mining and engineering constraints - matters in which commentators with credibility such as Mark Mills explain in quite sufficient detail to convince any rational thinking person that the political aspiration is somewhat deflated by the constraints on what is actually achievable in the real world, etc. His video really is enlightening to anyone with any interest whatsoever in learning why there really is NOT a net zero transition coming just around the track. This is quite apart from the entire question of the need to reduce man made carbon dioxide, which is neither a pollutant nor impacts on the temperature of the day or night, come to that. Temperature drives carbon dioxide levels (some 0.04% of our atmosphere), carbon dioxide levels do not drive planetary temperature levels.
Irrespective of the why's and wherefore's of sundry regulatory body lapses, or foreign companies profiteering on the back of acquisitions of energy companies, the simple fact remains, again, that your assertion that "Now that costs of renewables have come right down energy costs are getting lower" flies in the face of those who open their electricity bills. 'Renewables' are not renewable, they are 'replaceable' due to their propensity to wear out, but the raw materials required for their replacement are becoming harder to come by, the critical minerals required are controlled in the vast majority of cases by China, and are subject to the same vagaries of supply and (global) demand quite apart from the strategically questionable decision to cross swords with China should one seek to perpetuate these daft and costly, pointless boondoggles.
See again post #76; the facts still trump the political nonsense.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
So how do junior members of staff become highly skilled professionals then if they are unable to travel to work alongside clients and other members of staff.
More to the point, how do you suggest UK based companies actually work with, support and integrate with their European customers and clients, if they are unable to travel and spend time working, installing, troubleshooting etc.
And by design, I wasn’t meaning digital cushy lifestyle, I mean detailed engineering type design work involving spanners, machinery etc.
Rasputin
Well-Known Member
There’s literally no blockers to them going whatsoever iv done close to 30 days in Ireland and Holland this year and daily calls/interactions with them selling product to half a dozen countries. You can jump on a plane for meetings and team events, work digitally and they can also come here. Completely ignoring the fact there’s thousands of highly skilled engineering companies here where people can move to if they want to learn more.
You’re just making excuses to fit your arguments. I fail to see what someone can’t learn here, moving abroad is a lifestyle choice nothing more let’s not dress this up as an “educational” experience.
There’s a wonderful irony from the Remoaner crowd that Brexiteers are “little englanders” yet we’re the ones trying to trade with the whole world not just the EU finding solutions and work around to problems.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Well Ireland you have free movement to. We always have since the 1920s under settlement agreement we had as part of end of home rule. So that doesn’t count.
The Netherlands - yes you can go and talk and do marketing etc etc. But if you are in form of regulated business you cannot actually do anything other than supervise. You can’t sign off on anything or provide an opinion. Pretty much means that any European business now has to be done by European nationals.
