Steel on the crows today.

[Smellydog]

Only about 35 birds. I shot about 55 cartridges. All mixed but about 15 to 20 steel. Fiochhi and Hull. They did ok but nowhere as good as lead and of course plastic wads.
I picked a few up, those that I could find and both types had shot embedded in them.

The hull ones are supposed to melt so I've left them out to observe at home.
I can't but help think it's a backwards step but Britain has been doing that for yonks now!
I'm stocking up on lead in the meantime...

One of the crows by the way had white wings. His mother must of had a passionate rendezvous with a cheeky magpie sometime! Dirty little ....ers.

 

[jall55]

I was going to post yesterday but never got round to it
We had a few hours on the crows yesterday - only got 20 odd - but i used steel and the other 2 lads lead - in our very very limited experience yesterday the steel did as well if not better - i was using larger shot

We have a fair few round here with with patches of white - had to keep our wits about us as the stock doves kept scooting over the hedge along with a few raven - again it does demonstrate the difference "we" all can can make - this time last year and the year before we were shooting between 80/150 each outing - comparatively few about now - and still on caught 1 in the traps this year against several hundred in the couple of years past

 

[jall55]

Never seen that with the steel stuck in the wad

 

[Smellydog]

I had dozens of stockiest buzzing me. Keeps me awake between shots...

 

[weblyish]

Are the cartridges fresh?

I had some with cellulose wads supposed to melt in the rain
Had a few left over from last season and they did that. The shot seems to have buried itself in the wad
They weren't noticeably damp so I assumed it was heat and sitting

 

[enfieldspares]

Never seen that with the steel stuck in the wad

And why I won't ever support the nonsense that BASC "volunteered" us all for.

 

[Smellydog]

Are the cartridges fresh?

I had some with cellulose wads supposed to melt in the rain
Had a few left over from last season and they did that. The shot seems to have buried itself in the wad
They weren't noticeably damp so I assumed it was heat and sitting

Reasonably fresh yes. Well kept. The fiochhi are straight plastic so good for what ....a thousand years?!!

 

[jall55]

And why I won't ever support the nonsense that BASC "volunteered" us all for.

I have used thousands now and really impressed - cycle better than the lead ones i was using too in both my semi autos tbh

 

[Smellydog]

Nothing is melting!

 

[jall55]

Nothing is melting!
View attachment 417060

I have made a concerted effort this last few days to pick my wads up and have not found any steel stuck - i will keep looking though as i use different ones

 

[Jon P]

Nothing is melting!
View attachment 417060

Think they take around 2 years to break down in soil. Still quicker than 1000 yrs for plastic wads. Be interesting to see how they breakdown in soil. Those wads look a bit protected from the elements, on a hard surface and against a wall so limiting the amount of sunlight and rain they get on them.

 

[jall55]

Think they take around 2 years to break down in soil. Still quicker than 1000 yrs for plastic wads. Be interesting to see how they breakdown in soil. Those wads look a bit protected from the elements, on a hard surface and against a wall so limiting the amount of sunlight and rain they get on them.

The eley bio wad ones are incredible - gone in a day or two
Or turned into big slimy slugs anyway

 

[Crunchy Peanut Butter]

In no way meant as an insult or arrogance as my shooting is often sub par, but I am genuinely surprised when I hear peoples comments on steel. I have used it on everything from high geese to driven game and it has been at worst fine and best exceptional. I kind of think that many of the negative reviews are largely down to individuals shooting rather than the base performance of the cartridge.

I have seen steel stuck in the wad, some brands seem more prone than others but as long as they are on the inside and not the outside the wad is doing its job. It is only ever a small number, and the increase in pellet count to weight more than makes up for it. The only exception to this was RC Atomics, when patterned, they showed the wad to consistently punch a hole/dent the pattern board. It was only my gun/choke that resulted in this and through my friends gun they patterned perfectly with no sign of a wad impact.

 

[Smellydog]

Think they take around 2 years to break down in soil. Still quicker than 1000 yrs for plastic wads. Be interesting to see how they breakdown in soil. Those wads look a bit protected from the elements, on a hard surface and against a wall so limiting the amount of sunlight and rain they get on them.

So two years, with over lapping seasons it's gonna look a right mess!

 

[kenbro]

Chap at the gun club was telling about his mate that sell lots of pigeons for sending abroad for eating.
They’re having problems somewhere along the line with the birds going rusty!
Seriously.
KB.

 

[Jon P]

So two years, with over lapping seasons it's gonna look a right mess!

At least they are going- I stalk on a place that used to have regular pheasant shoots, still finding them now walking through the wood- they will be there 1000 yrs unlike the biodegradable ones. Cant seen no reason to keep throwing plastic into the countryside that we all love when alternatives are available.

 

[Hambone]

At least they are going- I stalk on a place that used to have regular pheasant shoots, still finding them now walking through the wood- they will be there 1000 yrs unlike the biodegradable ones. Cant seen no reason to keep throwing plastic into the countryside that we all love when alternatives are available.

Fibre wads and lead for example?

 

[Jon P]

Fibre wads and lead for example?

I agree, I don’t use a shotgun much anymore, however I do use fibre wads as I find the plastic wads unsightly, but if people think plastic is better then the biodegradable ones have to be a way forward.

 

[enfieldspares]

I have seen steel stuck in the wad, some brands seem more prone than others but as long as they are on the inside and not the outside the wad is doing its job.

Ah but.. The "Ah but" is that three or four pellets clumped together now have the weight of a much large projectile and so the possibility of carrying further (and possessing more energy and lethality) that loose individual "free" pellets in the shot string.

Yes the wad that they are embedded in will act like a drogue but nevertheless the combined mass of the clumped pellets is greater and with that a potential risk. Or does the wad being now weigh carrying reverse and act not like a drogue but like a shuttlecock?

Four or five steel #5 clumped together (either a driect shot or a deflection or ricochet) to the side of the head or the legs or other body parts of a beater is potentially far more serious an injury risk than a single "free" steel #5.

An assessment maybe needs to be done of the possibility of such a harm from a wad - this punching a hole in the pattern board maybe shows this - carrying in it multiple embedded steel pellets? As we are a nation where now a risk assessment exercise in shooting maybe needs to consider even outside possibilities if not just to then discount them.

 

[Crunchy Peanut Butter]

Ah but.. The "Ah but" is that three or four pellets clumped together now have the weight of a much large projectile and so the possibility of carrying further (and possessing more energy and lethality) that loose individual "free" pellets in the shot string.

Yes the wad that they are embedded in will act like a drogue but nevertheless the combined mass of the clumped pellets is greater and with that a potential risk. Or does the wad being now weigh carrying reverse and act not like a drogue but like a shuttlecock?

Four or five steel #5 clumped together (either a driect shot or a deflection or ricochet) to the side of the head or the legs or other body parts of a beater is potentially far more serious an injury risk than a single "free" steel #5.

An assessment maybe needs to be done of the possibility of such a harm from a wad - this punching a hole in the pattern board maybe shows this - carrying in it multiple embedded steel pellets? As we are a nation where now a risk assessment exercise in shooting maybe needs to consider even outside possibilities if not just to then discount them.

I cannot envisage many scenarios where I am particularly worried that my wad will harm someone. I mean, it is a long long way from being a slug and unlike a pattern board, I wont be shooting directly at a beater 30yds away.

The shooting community would be wise to not be so ready to dismiss every progression towards non toxic. Forever staying with the status quo isn't an option on the table and in the words of old Trumpy Boy, "we aint holding the cards"