Steel shot??

[DaveT]

Our shoot has 18 members - the odd fibber and maybe a couple of above average shots

We usually shoot 12 days a season - with all shots and head recorded - we tend to average bags of 100
The ratio is actually better this season with everyone using steel than the previous 10
Fluke ? Coincidence ? No idea - but i can certainly vouch that steel does kill

Out of interest, is there any consensus on a good choice of cartridge and/or shot size?

 

[bobo]

You are having all the same dicussions as we had 30 years ago, when we where forced to use steel .
Nowadays we got steel cartriges that do the job, but i dont know if you can get them in UK.
The ones shown in this tread are unkown to me.
First off always use larger lager pellets than when using lead.
For shooting phesants we used 2,75-2,5mm shot size lead in the good old days. When using steel 3mm is the norm, smaller simply pass right through them.
Same reason we used 3,5mm lead pellets for deer in old days, now we use 4mm steel. The 3,5mm steel pellets often simply pass right through and the deer will run a distance before it dies.


A lot of shots on big hunts hurts: Think thats the reason 20Ga has become so popular here.
12Ga leadshot with 36gram load, has less recoil than a 20Ga steel cartrige 24gram load.
If shooting a lot of 12Ga steel then a nice blue shoulder and well establised headace if for certain.

However if it was up to me I would still like to go back to lead.
Its more pleasant to shoot lead, and standard Eley Grand Prix lead cartrige kills about as well as the best (and 5 times more expensive) steel ones. Thats a big deal when we use them for shooting deer.

 

[Smellydog]

You are having all the same dicussions as we had 30 years ago, when we where forced to use steel .
Nowadays we got steel cartriges that do the job, but i dont know if you can get them in UK.
The ones shown in this tread are unkown to me.
First off always use larger lager pellets than when using lead.
For shooting phesants we used 2,75-2,5mm shot size lead in the good old days. When using steel 3mm is the norm, smaller simply pass right through them.
Same reason we used 3,5mm lead pellets for deer in old days, now we use 4mm steel. The 3,5mm steel pellets often simply pass right through and the deer will run a distance before it dies.


A lot of shots on big hunts hurts: Think thats the reason 20Ga has become so popular here.
12Ga leadshot with 36gram load, has less recoil than a 20Ga steel cartrige 24gram load.
If shooting a lot of 12Ga steel then a nice blue shoulder and well establised headace if for certain.

However if it was up to me I would still like to go back to lead.
Its more pleasant to shoot lead, and standard Eley Grand Prix lead cartrige kills about as well as the best (and 5 times more expensive) steel ones. Thats a big deal when we use them for shooting deer.

Is the ground covered in plastic wads yet bobo?

 

[bobo]

Is the ground covered in plastic wads yet bobo?

Yes they are everywhere, and the beaches, you cant go over much beach without seeim them everywhere.
They are discussing to ban plastic wads, and it will only be a matter of when it happen.
So far it has been a problem to make biodegradeble wads for game shooting steel shot cartriges (for clay its no problem).

I dont know if it have had any impact on lead levels in nature.
Our wild animals and plants are getting less and less every year. They seem to go down every year about the same level as number of humans go up.

 

[Smellydog]

Yes they are everywhere, and the beaches, you cant go over much beach without seeim them everywhere.
They are discussing to ban plastic wads, and it will only be a matter of when it happen.
So far it has been a problem to make biodegradeble wads for game shooting steel shot cartriges (for clay its no problem).

I dont know if it have had any impact on lead levels in nature.
Our wild animals and plants are getting less and less every year. They seem to go down every year about the same level as number of humans go up.

Thank you for your honest reply re the wads.
I'm quite sad about that.

 

[jall55]

Out of interest, is there any consensus on a good choice of cartridge and/or shot size?

We have been using Eley VIP in 32 g 5
With bio wad

The gun is filthy after as the wad seems to leave a sticky sludge in the barrel but if anything its easier to clean than with my old Hull High Pheasant

 

[jall55]

Thank you for your honest reply re the wads.
I'm quite sad about that.

So am I SD - but you do not - ever - under no circumstances - need to use plastic wads - It really is so very simple

 

[nath_]

Steel shot needs a steel shot proof barrel = fluer thingy symbol for high presure steel

Not true, standard performance steel is fine through MOST nitro proof barrels (which is most barrels proofed after 1954) through half choke or less.

 

[jall55]

Not true, standard performance steel is fine through MOST nitro proof barrels (which is most barrels proofed after 1954) through half choke or less.

And if you read a bit further Nath - SOME can even be used in tighter chokes too

 

[timbrayford]

Not true, standard performance steel is fine through MOST nitro proof barrels (which is most barrels proofed after 1954) through half choke or less.

If steel shot is so risky why do people use it, surely its penny wise and pound foolish if it wrecks your barrels?

 

[nath_]

If steel shot is so risky why do people use it, surely its penny wise and pound foolish if it wrecks your barrels?

It doesn’t wreck your barrels.

I shoot a lot of pigeons, all with steel as it’s the only way I can sell the pigeons.

Obviously all my wildfowling is done with steel also.

I have had absolutely no problem with steel ever. That includes very regularly putting high performance steel through older non steel proofed side by sides (AYA No3 magnums)

Steel is now my first choice over lead where possible when shooting game also. Put it in the right place and it does the job just fine. Shoot sensibly is the main thing not poking at silly distance birds.

 

[nath_]

And if you read a bit further Nath - SOME can even be used in tighter chokes too

Newer fabarms are steel shot proof at full choke.

Or if you look at the likes of a terror choke (popular in browning gold 10bores) they’re fine shooting steel at extra full

 

[timbrayford]

It doesn’t wreck your barrels.

I shoot a lot of pigeons, all with steel as it’s the only way I can sell the pigeons.

Obviously all my wildfowling is done with steel also.

I have had absolutely no problem with steel ever. That includes very regularly putting high performance steel through older non steel proofed side by sides (AYA No3 magnums)

Steel is now my first choice over lead where possible when shooting game also. Put it in the right place and it does the job just fine. Shoot sensibly is the main thing not poking at silly distance birds.

So why say " standard performance steel is fine through MOST nitro proof barrels (which is most barrels proofed after 1954) through half choke or less" instead of use it in any gun with any choke as it doesn't wreck barrels?

 

[nath_]

So why say " standard performance steel is fine through MOST nitro proof barrels (which is most barrels proofed after 1954) through half choke or less" instead of use it in any gun with any choke as it doesn't wreck barrels?

It’s not rocket science if you actually look into it.

I’m not a gunsmith.

MOST nitroproofed barrels could allow for guns that are no longer in proof due to wall thickness, it also allows for Damascus barrelled guns (which it is not advised to shoot steel through however I do know further afield from the uk they have been shooting some steel through Damascus with no obscene consequences)


Steel isn’t as malleable as lead, under constriction (chokes work on constriction) it doesn’t compress like steel.

Steel also tends to pattern tighter than lead. (Pattern testing is important, especially for home loading)

It is purely a guideline, the CIP have set out more as an arse covering than anything else.

Like I say, do your own research.

I have done mine and I feel comfortable in my use of steel.

 

[timbrayford]

It’s not rocket science if you actually look into it.

I’m not a gunsmith.

MOST nitroproofed barrels could allow for guns that are no longer in proof due to wall thickness, it also allows for Damascus barrelled guns (which it is not advised to shoot steel through however I do know further afield from the uk they have been shooting some steel through Damascus with no obscene consequences)


Steel isn’t as malleable as lead, under constriction (chokes work on constriction) it doesn’t compress like steel.

Steel also tends to pattern tighter than lead. (Pattern testing is important, especially for home loading)

It is purely a guideline, the CIP have set out more as an arse covering than anything else.

Like I say, do your own research.

I have done mine and I feel comfortable in my use of steel.

It may not surprise you to learn that I have a very different opinion. I believe that steel shot is ballistically inferior to lead, bismuth and tungsten, and also lacks the versitility of the alternives and is only being promoted purely on cost grounds and no other. Futhermore I believe that in driven and clay shooting situations it poses a significant increased risk of causing injuries and damage over and above that of lead due to ricochets.

 

[Liveonce]

Also in my experience steel shot cartridges have a much louder report, that could be a big issue going forward for clay grounds, given noise pollution can result in a clay ground being shut down. Yet no mention of that in the HSE proposal.

 

[JTO]

And if you read a bit further Nath - SOME can even be used in tighter chokes too

I use 42Gm 1's and 3's through a 10-bore with Super Choke barrels. They are 12-bore cartridges though, so the wad size may be helping.
P.S. There is no English '2' shot!

 

[nath_]

I use 42Gm 1's and 3's through a 10-bore with Super Choke barrels. They are 12-bore cartridges though, so the wad size may be helping.
P.S. There is no English '2' shot!

I use gamebore rhino 48 gram steel B’s in my Ten bore and home loaded 46 gram BBs

 

[bobo]

We have been using Eley VIP in 32 g 5
With bio wad

The gun is filthy after as the wad seems to leave a sticky sludge in the barrel but if anything its easier to clean than with my old Hull High Pheasant

There have been several types of bio wads here, but so far it seems to be a problem getting them right for fast speed cartriges.
In Oktober there was another big manufactures recall of bio-wad shotgun shells.
I have tried Mirage bio-wad (420 M/S), and they are OK for land birds, havent had much luck on geese and ducks.

Problem with Eley VIP steel 32g bio wad; they are "only" marked as 395 M/S, and that´s to slow for legal hunting here (minimum 400 M/S).
Eley VIP Steel hyperspeed, are much more popular here they go with 460 M/S, but dont come with biowad.
So far it dosent seem like anyone have been able to make a acceptable biowad, for the fast steel shot cartriges.
If they do make acceptable biowads I will gladly use them.
Every walk on the Jutland east coast beach we collect a bag full of old plastic wads.

For shooting geese and ducks I use the most powerfull we can get, 32gram steel 460-480 meters per second, and they do an acceptable job on the water.
Problem is my gun is a 60 year old Suhl S/S is without recoil buffer in the stock or padding, so those cartriges are very hard to shoot from my gun.
I dont have a problem shooting 50 shots from 9,3x62 rifle loaded with 285grain hunting loads when spending 1 hour in the shooting cinema, but it really hurts the shoulder to shoot 15 shots of those powerfull steel cartriges over a day on the water.
The shooting distances have to be kept down when using steel pellets no matter the cartriges.

 

[nath_]

For anyone homeloading, jocker now supply their paper shot cups (suitable for steel and TSS!) through fenland reloading. A great alternative to plas wads