Struggle with my renewal

[old 30-06]

It was time to renew my Firearms and Shotgun Certificates. I received the standard letter from the Police, and then the fun began. I could not get their system to work on my computer. After a lot of faff (and time and money) a computer man said my computer system would not run their system. I then had to have a new operating system installed on my computer.

I started to fill the forms in, but needed the Doctor's form done before it would let me progress. To be fair, the Doctor did complete it in about three weeks, but I was away on holiday for a couple of weeks. On my return I got hold of the Doctor's letter, but then got the red "hurry up" letter from the Police.

I sprung into action. Hours and hours were spent going round and round the Kent Police website before I managed to stumble into the correct page. I had someone photo the Doctor's form, and a recent photograph of me, and J-peg them onto it for me (whatever the hell that is). O.K. I was now ready to send it in.

However, its not really clear on the letter where to send it. So eventually I e-mailed it all to the general web site of the Firearms Department. Then I went to pay. No where does it tell you how to do this. Not who to make the money payable to. Not even bank details are provided. So I have had to e-mail them to request their payment details. I await their reply. I do not internet bank so I will have to get someone to electronically send them the £155, and then pay them back.

Every one of you will face this procedure within the next five years. Good luck. But surely the system and process could be a lot easier?

 

[Jamsie]

It was time to renew my Firearms and Shotgun Certificates. I received the standard letter from the Police, and then the fun began. I could not get their system to work on my computer. After a lot of faff (and time and money) a computer man said my computer system would not run their system. I then had to have a new operating system installed on my computer.

I started to fill the forms in, but needed the Doctor's form done before it would let me progress. To be fair, the Doctor did complete it in about three weeks, but I was away on holiday for a couple of weeks. On my return I got hold of the Doctor's letter, but then got the red "hurry up" letter from the Police.

I sprung into action. Hours and hours were spent going round and round the Kent Police website before I managed to stumble into the correct page. I had someone photo the Doctor's form, and a recent photograph of me, and J-peg them onto it for me (whatever the hell that is). O.K. I was now ready to send it in.

However, its not really clear on the letter where to send it. So eventually I e-mailed it all to the general web site of the Firearms Department. Then I went to pay. No where does it tell you how to do this. Not who to make the money payable to. Not even bank details are provided. So I have had to e-mail them to request their payment details. I await their reply. I do not internet bank so I will have to get someone to electronically send them the £155, and then pay them back.

Every one of you will face this procedure within the next five years. Good luck. But surely the system and process could be a lot easier?

Haven't you got a teenage grandson / grand daughter to do this for you?

Jamsie

 

[eldon]

Yep, just been through the wringer, sorry process.
Do I think it has increased public safety?
No

Is it far too complicated and repetitive especially to applicants unfamiliar with computers?
Yes

Is it designed to put people off?
My cynical side says yes.

I'm lucky to be under North Yorkshire Police and they turned it around completed in ten weeks start to finish. New certificates arrived two days before current expiry.

You may run the postcode lottery and not be so lucky with your Police force.

 

[willie_gunn]

Not that it will help, but by contrast I’m just going through my renewal with Thames Valley.

I got everything ready so that I could complete the process 6 months before the old tickets expired. This included getting the medical form filled out (it took a few days at my local GP surgery) as well as the necessary photos/PDF of the current FAC/SGC, along with a suitable passport photo.

Having sorted these I then completed the online form, which took probably 45 minutes but was made a lot easier by having everything ready to upload.

I paid the fee, and then got a text message from TVP a few days later saying that the form had been checked and would be progressed through the process.

Last week I received an email saying that the validated form had been passed on to my local FEO. I got a call from him whilst I was at work on Wednesday, where we went through the form together and arranged a home visit. We also talked through the HAD scheme (of which I’m a member) and, having just been re-assessed and attended the primary contact training, that was all quickly sorted. I know one of my referees has been contacted and presume the same is true of the other.

I’ve been told that my old tickets had been extended automatically by a couple of months, so fingers crossed my new ones should start in March.

The service has been very quick and efficient throughout, and I really couldn’t fault it. I do think the online process is a lot slicker than physically sending the form in, and I’d recommend that people try to go online wherever possible.

 

[Loki]

Hi

The Home Office 'standard renewal form' is still an accepted alternative, and as I understand it Polis Services must accept it, if like you (and I!) we are not 'elec-trickery' au-fait, and likely of a vintage (like a fine wine!!) and will not involve others.

I refuse to use it as if all information is not to hand, and even then there is risk due to having to connect via 'tinternet', timing out, etc., to other 'systems', you cannot conclude - partial completion of 'elec-trickery' forms is not possible (leastways in my once only experience).

I hand deliver (not far from TV Polis HQ), with copies and photos of everything, including into the TVP postbox - the Reception Staff (the answers 'No'!, so what is your question) have been instructed not to accept anything let alone provide a receipt (last I recall refused to provide their C???? number or name.........).
Yet the Staff in the FL Team, Fountain Court, have in my experience in past (5+years ago), always been helpful including coming down to review forms to ensure correct etc.

Maybe just TVP, a tax funded Public Service and not a 'Force'.........

L

 

[Leec6.5]

Personally my experience of the online system was very efficient, I’ve now done a renewal and variation.

The variation was a grind, got there in just over 4 months with Norfolk.

They key is to fill your ticket, and let it run its course, they’re not going to let you run out so if your tickets are full or you reload so you’ve got plenty of ammunition happy days , get your paperwork in well in advance and it takes as long as it takes!

 

[Greenmist]

It was time to renew my Firearms and Shotgun Certificates. I received the standard letter from the Police, and then the fun began. I could not get their system to work on my computer. After a lot of faff (and time and money) a computer man said my computer system would not run their system. I then had to have a new operating system installed on my computer.

I started to fill the forms in, but needed the Doctor's form done before it would let me progress. To be fair, the Doctor did complete it in about three weeks, but I was away on holiday for a couple of weeks. On my return I got hold of the Doctor's letter, but then got the red "hurry up" letter from the Police.

I sprung into action. Hours and hours were spent going round and round the Kent Police website before I managed to stumble into the correct page. I had someone photo the Doctor's form, and a recent photograph of me, and J-peg them onto it for me (whatever the hell that is). O.K. I was now ready to send it in.

However, its not really clear on the letter where to send it. So eventually I e-mailed it all to the general web site of the Firearms Department. Then I went to pay. No where does it tell you how to do this. Not who to make the money payable to. Not even bank details are provided. So I have had to e-mail them to request their payment details. I await their reply. I do not internet bank so I will have to get someone to electronically send them the £155, and then pay them back.

Every one of you will face this procedure within the next five years. Good luck. But surely the system and process could be a lot easier?

Ask for a paper application

 

[purdeydog]

In the nicest possibly way this sounds like a you problem. Sort you admin out and life is easier.

 

[Yorkie]

Ask for a paper application

At the time of my renewal, had i known that the paper option was available i would have taken it. I only read afterwards in the BASC magazine that this had to be accepted by Police.

I have no computer skills, no copier, no scanner, no idea what a PDF is. I had to get help from someone. My mobile is so old it does not even have a camera. Technology does not interest me. I suspect i am not on my own.

 

[jb1]

I have helped 2 people now with completing the on-line form, not saying i'm a PC expert my any means but worked on excel, created work sheets created SSOW RA Method statements etc all day for years. so used to keyboards. The form can be a nightmare for those not used to on line forms, not be able to save the form is a poor design in the programme, i dont see any reason why it cant be saved. The medical questions for me could be removed, its obvious there is no trust due to the same questions are answered on the Proforma from the Dr or Medical data supplier used.

With regards to asking for assistants just me careful you dont upset your license department, I had a call from the firearms department and was threatened with a warning (no idea what the warning was for) i was not accepting any threats from the caller whatsoever simply for assisting a chap fill in his renewal form.
His phone was an old Nokia and he would break out in a sweat if asked to open a laptop. The guy sat next to me in my office at work, I asked the questions and as he answered i ticked the box relevant to the answer, his Dr cert was not added at the time but was sent direct from his Dr surgery, a blank word document was attached so you could advance to the next page. If im being honest i think BASC or other shooting Orgs should have picked these problems up before it was rolled out. These types of problems would not be seen by those who use laptops regularly if your creating these types of forms they should be idiot proof.

 

[udderlyoffroad]

At the time of my renewal, had i known that the paper option was available i would have taken it. I only read afterwards in the BASC magazine that this had to be accepted by Police.

I have no computer skills, no copier, no scanner, no idea what a PDF is. I had to get help from someone. My mobile is so old it does not even have a camera. Technology does not interest me. I suspect i am not on my own.

He opines on an internet forum

 

[Yorkie]

He opines on an internet forum

It's only takes one click to access SD. This is the only social media i use.

 

[Rake Aboot]

You don’t have to do it online.

 

[Klenchblaize]

I'm pretty sure the Kent on-line system will only permit/prompt electronic payment once you've successfully completed all stages of the application (without going back a page). In short, you should be seeing a page at the end of the process that has the link for such.

Sadly, you can no longer pop up to KPHQ to either deposit an Aplication by hand or collect FAC's as the Firearms Team are no longer based there.

K

 

[udderlyoffroad]

It's only takes one click to access SD. This is the only social media i use.

You don't think proudly proclaiming your ignorance of IT on the internet is odd then?

If im being honest i think BASC or other shooting Orgs should have picked these problems up before it was rolled out.

That would imply they were invited to participate in the testing of the system. Am going to take a swing in the dark here and suggest the orgs found out when we did.

These types of problems would not be seen by those who use laptops regularly if your creating these types of forms they should be idiot proof.

Attempt to create an idiot proof system and the universe just invents a better idiot.

However, Hampshire have managed to roll out a system where you can save halfway through process. Using off the shelf IT tools. Why on earth we need 40 separate systems to achieve the same thing is madness.

 

[Yorkie]

You don't think proudly proclaiming your ignorance of IT on the internet is odd then?


That would imply they were invited to participate in the testing of the system. Am going to take a swing in the dark here and suggest the orgs found out when we did.

Attempt to create an idiot proof system and the universe just invents a better idiot.

However, Hampshire have managed to roll out a system where you can save halfway through process. Using off the shelf IT tools. Why on earth we need 40 separate systems to achieve the same thing is madness.

No, not in the slightest. I switch on and press click on SD. Does not make me a Bill Gates. Would not say i was proud of it, just a fact.

 

[Cogswell & Harrison]

I'm pretty sure that the BASC suggested to the Police that paper applications, renewals and variations were acceptable via paper format for this very reason and this was agreed by all. That's to say, a licence holder either current or prospective should not be be at any disadvantage due to their skills at navigating an IT system that is beyond their ability.

@Conor O'Gorman

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I'm pretty sure that the BASC suggested to the Police that paper applications, renewals and variations were acceptable via paper format for this very reason and this was agreed by all. That's to say, a licence holder either current or prospective should not be be at any disadvantage due to their skills at navigating an IT system that is beyond their ability.

@Conor O'Gorman

We have challenged forces where no option was provided for paper applications and it's for the FLD to look at reasonable requests for paper application on a case by case basis.

BASC welcomes West Mercia decision to keep paper applications

BASC has welcomed clarification from West Mercia Police that paper submissions for certificate applications will continue to be accepted.

basc.org.uk

 

[M@tt]

I'm pretty sure that the BASC suggested to the Police that paper applications, renewals and variations were acceptable via paper format for this very reason and this was agreed by all. That's to say, a licence holder either current or prospective should not be be at any disadvantage due to their skills at navigating an IT system that is beyond their ability.

@Conor O'Gorman

I'd hope that BASC pointed out that the law actually shows the acceptable forms, and you can print them off and use them instead of the online system.

Having said that, using the online system no doubt makes the FLD's job easier, so why would you make it harder for them if you could possibly use their preferred method? The few that cannot use the online system, for whatever reason, could still use the paper method. The majority would be helping streamline the whole process into a faster and more efficient one, allowing slack in the system for the paper filers to continue submitting in the old way.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Accepting paper applications is not an option , it’s a requirement.
If a force is refusing, they are in the wrong and not complying with the legislation.