Taking something useful from something controversial.

James0586

Well-Known Member
I originally commented on the video of driven muntjac.

I agree with what your saying in that if it goes south this is your plan B. I didnt agree with the driven muntjac video however in the scenario that your speaking about it would be an advantage to ensure that the animal has been dispatched without causing more suffering.

Like Andy shooter said : its like having the skill to be able to do CPR you just hope you never have to use it.
 

hendrix's rifle

Well-Known Member
Coincidently, I am currently out stalking, well having a smoke whilst I calm down having just missed an opportunity on a malformed stag. Reading the comments last night and knowing what I already do I've wanted to practise moving targets with a rifle a few times. About 15 minutes ago, that would have come in handy as said stag wasn't stopping!
 

countrryboy

Well-Known Member
Coincidently, I am currently out stalking, well having a smoke whilst I calm down having just missed an opportunity on a malformed stag. Reading the comments last night and knowing what I already do I've wanted to practise moving targets with a rifle a few times. About 15 minutes ago, that would have come in handy as said stag wasn't stopping!
Had u shot at the stag and injured it??

As i said earlier not a fan of shooting running gamme with rifles full stop, but if u practice it ()which isnt easy in the uk and expensive with the price of ammo)
If that was ur only chance of the day would u then feel confident enough to take a shot at that running beast?
And woul that confidence be justified with the ammount of practice u could realistically do?

While its never a bad thing to learn a new skill some skills are so niche that there almost useless and u'd be far better pratice/improving ur shooting at still targets at various ranges of all sorts of supports then u'd probably never need to shoot a moving beast if ur only taing shots within ur capabillites on that day.
Did someone not say earlier that kill rates on contentient are as low as 10:1 where in UK u really should be around 90+%

I think the internet gives a lot of folk ideas far above their station/ability/experience, head/brain shots where the 'cool' thing for a while with folk trying to brain shoot deer at silly ranges and not realising the folk that do it have masses of experience and know when its on or not, this will be the same i shot a moving deer at 'X' m's appearing all over the net.

That malformed stag will still be there tomorrow or even if it takes u a week to catch up with him, i doubt he will be in any pain at this time of year (no flies etc) whereas if ur losing of shots at moving deer he might end up moving on or dying in pain
 

mchughcb

Well-Known Member
If the rate is 1:10 then i call that The worst ive every heard on any driven hunt im on from foxes to deer and boar. You would get the biggest bollocking and never asked back. You are wasting the time of the dogs , handlers and the hunt team.
 

hendrix's rifle

Well-Known Member
Had u shot at the stag and injured it??

As i said earlier not a fan of shooting running gamme with rifles full stop, but if u practice it ()which isnt easy in the uk and expensive with the price of ammo)
If that was ur only chance of the day would u then feel confident enough to take a shot at that running beast?
And woul that confidence be justified with the ammount of practice u could realistically do?

While its never a bad thing to learn a new skill some skills are so niche that there almost useless and u'd be far better pratice/improving ur shooting at still targets at various ranges of all sorts of supports then u'd probably never need to shoot a moving beast if ur only taing shots within ur capabillites on that day.
Did someone not say earlier that kill rates on contentient are as low as 10:1 where in UK u really should be around 90+%

I think the internet gives a lot of folk ideas far above their station/ability/experience, head/brain shots where the 'cool' thing for a while with folk trying to brain shoot deer at silly ranges and not realising the folk that do it have masses of experience and know when its on or not, this will be the same i shot a moving deer at 'X' m's appearing all over the net.

That malformed stag will still be there tomorrow or even if it takes u a week to catch up with him, i doubt he will be in any pain at this time of year (no flies etc) whereas if ur losing of shots at moving deer he might end up moving on or dying in pain
No mate, just wouldn't stop moving for a shot so left him be because I won't take a shot like that without experience first. It's one of those things, if I knew about it and what was going on I could have decided wether to take the shot or not. Always tomorrow
 

johngryphon

Well-Known Member
While its never a bad thing to learn a new skill some skills are so niche that there almost useless a
CB you come up with some of the silliest schite at times "some skills are so niche that there almost useless "

Being able to take moving game (deer in this instance) is a skill that is imperative to have no matter here, there or anywhere else. Deer walking through bush early AM can be a very real target on many occasions,they don't all stop. Breathe, lead, squeeze, bang!
We hunt a lot of deer that 'jump' as they often have the upper hand in detecting us,many of our shots are on the move shots and to be prepared in having the skill is of utmost importance unless you want a standing broadside shot at a deer every time and that is not reality out there in the deer hunting world.

I say get out and learn/practice and citing that ammo is expensive..so be it, but I would rather use it and learn than sit there counting it!
That practice can be rabbits in the cover, a great start point too


KNOWLEDGE IS NO WEIGHT TO CARRY.
 

Dave881

Well-Known Member
I originally commented on the video of driven muntjac.

I agree with what your saying in that if it goes south this is your plan B. I didnt agree with the driven muntjac video however in the scenario that your speaking about it would be an advantage to ensure that the animal has been dispatched without causing more suffering.

Like Andy shooter said : its like having the skill to be able to do CPR you just hope you never have to use it.
Couldn't agree with you more, I am glad this video was released as it has made me look at what skills could be helpful in the future.
 

countrryboy

Well-Known Member
For me ur still far far better practicing 'normal' targets in more like field conditions of various supports etc.

It really is a pretty advanced skill which u'd hardly ever use and the ammount of practice u'd have to put in to keep u up to speed would be massive, also something not very easy to practise in the uk.
If u really are confident at shooting almost any target out to 200m rail hail or shine in field conditions then by all means practice moving targets.
But lets face it if ur that good a shot the chances of u actually needing it are pretty small.
I dunno wot the folk are like commenting on this thread are like for practicing, but most uk fac holders/stalkers/keepers i know very rarely if ever take the rifle out to practice, and if they do its usually only after they've dropped it or missed something and is just a zero check.
That may not be the norm nationwide but it certainly is in my area.
Like i said far earlier u'd be far better practising shooting 2nd and 3rd shots in very quick succesion hopefully getting the 2nd shot in before deer even starts running. Very easily practiced in UK and also usefull for shooting followers etc

How often does an injured deer in UK stalking scenerio even present a safe shot?? (Note we're not talking about deer that are fairly close and being driven towards u from a roughy know direction) Not running into cover, can see the back stop etc
Say ur deers at 100m for arguments sake, u've just fluffed a shot at a stationary target, are u really going to pull of an ifinitely harder shot at a even smaller moving target?? Esp by the time u reload, adrenaline etc Chances are deer will not run at 90 so it doesn't talke much of an angle for that 4" target to become a lot smaller unless u go a bit 'texas'

Wot happens if when u exam the 1st shot site it turns out u've clean missed the deer but then find out u've gut shot it with ur running deer shot?
Is that still improving deer welfare?

Hendrix (not meaning to single u out) but i'd also be worried about 'mission' creep and folk starting to shoot at moving deer just to get 'shots off' (i know my kiwi mates do it) where does it stop? I don't entirley object if u have the experience and skill to do it but others will read this or future reports about it and start just taking pot shots without putting the practice in.

From a welfare point of view i'd say it really is pretty limited and probably a once in a stalking lifetime type of shot, really u'd be better of training a deer dog, any movement days in UK have dogs on standby for that reason just as they do on the continent.
Its good we look elsewhere to improve UK deer stalking and deer welfare standards and the recent deer tracking training is a great thing but not everything other countries do is improving on wot we already have.
Generally we have a very very low rate of deer injuries and an even lower rate of hunter injuries and not many countries can say that
 
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countrryboy

Well-Known Member
If the rate is 1:10 then i call that The worst ive every heard on any driven hunt im on from foxes to deer and boar. You would get the biggest bollocking and never asked back. You are wasting the time of the dogs , handlers and the hunt team.

Seemingly that is the average in France as quoted by PM on post #28
But even that is talking about driven game (which this thread is not) so u have a suitable rifle and scope for moving game, a rough direction u expect quarry to come form and safe arcs of fire, none of which u have in the OP's case for this thread. Also the range will likely to be a lot further than u'd ever shoot on a driven day

Also thought i seen someone on about using rabbits as practice, to me thats not humane and not fair on the rabbits.
Anytime u pull the trigger on live game u owe it to the animal to be going for a 100% clean kill. I would imgine that could leave u open to animal welfare charges inn the uk if leaing a lot of wounded rabbits behind

My old head keeper would quite literally kick my arse all over the estate if u thought i was taking pot shots with a rifle, was always 1 shot 1 kill even if that means u not taking the shot if something not right (esp with foxes in the lamp)
 
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johngryphon

Well-Known Member
Also thought i seen someone on about using rabbits as practice, to me thats not humane and not fair on the rabbits.[/QUOT
Come on whats the answer?

THE ANSWER IS NOT TO USE SWEAR WORDS ON THIS SITE AND CIRCUMVENT THE SYSTEM BY USING WORDS THAT ARE NOT FLAGGEDUP BUT ARE CLEARLY SEEN AND KNOWN AS SWEAR WORDS.
ZERO TOLERANCE.

Flying pheasants? How do we learn on them? Ah shooting paper planes I can imagi
 
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Alantoo

Well-Known Member
Well how in the fuuuucking hell do you learn how to shoot running rabbits with a gun then FFS?
Come on whats the answer?

Flying pheasants? How do we learn on them? Ah shooting paper planes I can imagine.

not fair on the rabbits. Geezuz mate you should retire your guns and take up knitting..dont stab yourself ha ha.

Is the difference between you and countryboy not between rifle and shotgun on moving targets?

Certainly for me I use an air rifle or 22LR to only pick off stationary rabbits, and only take a shot at one on the run when out with the shotgun.

As I said in my earlier post there is now more opportunity to practice shooting at moving targets with a rifle at the shooting cinemas and running boar/deer set ups.

Shotgunners have the opportunity to practice at moving targets by shooting at high or low clays to simulate flying or ground game.

Alan


The notion that somehow those who have only started shooting recently are at a disadvantage I would query. Apart from rolling a barrel down a hill, the only way in the past to practice shooting at a moving target with a rifle was to do it on live quarry. At least with the advent of shooting cinemas and running boar set ups it is possible to practice without maiming the local rabbit population.

I certainly think the OP has a point...be prepared. The huge advantage of practising before hand is that you learn your limitations. And if you realise that a moving shot beyond a few metres is unlikely to connect, then you redouble your efforts to ensure it won't ever be needed. I don't think it would ever encourage recklessness to practice...quite the opposite. I might even book a session.

As a beater on a couple of shoots where the experienced guns' prowess varies between 10 and 4 to 1 at under 80 yards with all the practice of clays that is available to them...shots at a moving target with single projectile would be a skill that needs a lot of practice. Be interesting to know what the shot to hit ratio is for driven boar.

Alan
 

johngryphon

Well-Known Member
Is the difference between you and countryboy not between rifle and shotgun on moving targets?
The two disciplines go together Alan imo,shotgunning holds the hunter in good stead for rifle shooting as well and on running game one learns so much that easily translates to "find/aim/lead/shoot.
However some no matter how hard they try never seem to get eye/hand coordination correct.
I can tell you that country reared kids that have shot all of their lives pick game up with their eyes far quicker than the city reared kid with the lesser and obvious lack of opportunities.

Yeah yeah I`m sure someone will pipe up and mention that the trigger use differs somewhat but that is a minor and I mean very minor difference to overcome.
A good bloke adapts to what the game is whether fur or fowl and to what firearm is in his claw on that day.
It is no big deal to learn and to have stored in ones noggin.
We used to take up to 100`s of foxes a year with rifle at night (17Rem) then using .12G`s driven foxes by day in conjunction with using terriers in dens,now that requires sharp eyes,keen alertness and a decent ability to shoot bolting foxes out of dens in granite boulders,bush and a mix of both. I really know that doing it often gives the shooter a great deal of "know how" especially with foxes as they can be zig zagging bastards.

Basically that rabbit/fox/hare shooting with a gun as a kid growing up is true training and something that a shooting cinema wont give. I do understand also that the opps here in Oz have always been easier than in the UK.

Do it,knowledge is no weight to carry!
 

.25-06

Well-Known Member
Your greatest skill to acquire with the rifle will be when to pass on the shot. Not ending up in the proverbial bucket of poo situation. It can be one of the hardest to master.
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
We seem to have some colourful language being used again. There is no real need for it. If you need to put your opinion across keep it clean, or you wont be seen!!
 

jimbo1984

Well-Known Member
Country boy makes an interesting point about how often people practice as such with a rifle , I suppose it really depends on how often your shooting , I use a rifle on a daily basis so really that's my practice , although I'll usually have a practice with the .22 at extended ranges just for practice sake , my point being that if like many your only out a few times a year then having regular practice serious even with an airgun is invaluable
 

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