TB and Raw Food

Buchan

Well-Known Member
This is by way of a heads up. There are an increasing number of reports of pets contracting bovine TB from raw pet food. This when there has been an increase in human disease associated with raw feeding for pets. Two things - 1. Be careful out there with raw feeding. Produce you have shot and can verify is probably OK. However, it appears there are few standards for raw food and it's origins are often unknown. Mincing will just increase the risk of spreading bacteria (a bit like a crap kebab).
2. Given the questions that get asked on here, most of you are very vigilant, so keep it up folks!
 

Buchan

Well-Known Member
Vague respiratory or gut signs. But it's too variable to be specific. The key thing is if you feed raw, make certain of it's provenance.
 

Buchan

Well-Known Member
It's the commerial that I would have the most concern about. There are apparently no guidelines for these products.
 

Chasser

Well-Known Member
When I pick up some raw food from a local producer, you wouldn’t believe how much food hygiene goes into dog food, hair nets, beard nets, face nets, gloves, white suits, over shoes etc... when I asked why they where it as it’s only dog food, the owner said they are inspected more frequently and to tighter guidelines than the human food industry!? It wa s immaculate in there! And I guess that as long as the food is DEFRA approved etc it’s going to be pretty well tested for tb?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Sika98k

Well-Known Member
A friend of mine works in the meat industry and has assured me that dog/cat food is fit for human consumption. I enquired as to why ? The reply was that sadly as it may seem it’s all some people can afford.
Then to prove his point as I expressed my incredulity he ate a couple of spoonfuls of Chum. He’s still alive and apart from a hangover the next day there were no ill effects.
 

potshotpat

Well-Known Member
A friend of mine works in the meat industry and has assured me that dog/cat food is fit for human consumption. I enquired as to why ? The reply was that sadly as it may seem it’s all some people can afford.
Then to prove his point as I expressed my incredulity he ate a couple of spoonfuls of Chum. He’s still alive and apart from a hangover the next day there were no ill effects.
Wait until tomorrow, when he starts chasing buses.;)
 

Buchan

Well-Known Member
Further too this, this is a paper describing the problem. So far 90 cases, all raw fed, mostly the same company, mostly the venison variety.

If anyone supplies raw food sellers, would you mind contacting me privately please. I'm not "after" anyone, just wondering what requirements the manufacturers have for the meat that they buy.
 

Sharpie

Well-Known Member
I don't think that it is much surprise that deer might be a vector for spreading TB, as with badgers. Whether they show obvious signs, or not. And they roam around far wider than say badgers. And I suspect they would have to be pretty far-gone before it became obvious.

Just as in humans, where it is on the rise here, human-human transmission, for various reasons. Stopping BCG testing and vaccination in 2005 being just one.


TB is a very fragile organism, it doesn't take much cooking to kill it. But eating raw meat doesn't do that.

FYI, the cattle that are condemned as TB reactors get sold into the human food chain by DEFRA.


"meat from TB reactors, once it has been passed as fit for human consumption, is not required to be marked in any way to distinguish it from other meat. Meat which passes the post mortem inspection is fit for human consumption and does not need additional labelling"

Much as deer that pass their post mortem inspection are deemed fit to enter the human food chain.

Quite why deer venison is ending up in raw dogfood is another question, presumably it wasn't worth trying to sell for human use, even as sausages or burgers.

My dog has been thriving on a commercial raw diet, basically 100% meat, since we stopped feeding him processed dry feed, composed of goodness knows what, very little meat in it at all, and all sorts of problems with his sensitive guts, worsening with age. As with the tinned stuff, there is very little actual meat in it, try tasting a spoonful.

Looking at that map of the clusters of confirmed raw food TB contamination, it doesn't take much imagination to sense a strong correlation with the regions supplied by some of the large companies in this business. And guess which one seems to have a problem.
 

Sharpie

Well-Known Member
PS: if we have run out of the commercial stuff, we make our own, from cheap human stuff, e.g. raw turkey or beef mince from the supermarket, or cheap chicken, as well as boiled rice, vegetables, and pulses. We have discovered that the dog is intolerant of wheat. PS, my GF is a (human) dietitian, and has a keen interest in how this applies to e.g. dogs, which are different from humans.
 

Buchan

Well-Known Member
Deer are not a vector but a "spill-over" host, that is they get TB, but don't usually pass it on. Exceptions occur such as fallow (and white-tails in the USA). So they are not a signficant source of TB compared to badgers (who are probably a true reservoir).
Vectors spread disease, without clinical effects, usually insects etc - so ticks for Lyme, midges for bluetongue
 

Sharpie

Well-Known Member
Sorry, incorrect terminology.

Humans can be carrying TB without showing any signs, nevertheless passing it on to others through coughs and sneezes, or hawking up and spitting onto the street, where even when it dries and turns to dust to blow about it can remain infectious. And there are some nasty drug-resistant varieties going around in humans nowadays.

Many years ago when I had my BCG at school, I'd say that half my class were "reactors", me included, meaning that we had already been exposed to it but shrugged it off, rather than dying of consumption. No point in vaccinating us. If I was a cow I suppose it would have been the end for me.

It would be interesting to know how prevalent this sort of immunity is in humans nowadays, but since our children don't get the BCG test any more, we can't know.

As to how it spreads around amongst our wild, and farmed, animal population, the difference between bovine TB and that which affects deer, and to what extent it might be a risk to my dog from raw feed, I wouldn't know.
 

Buchan

Well-Known Member
"As to how it spreads around amongst our wild, and farmed, animal population, the difference between bovine TB and that which affects deer, and to what extent it might be a risk to my dog from raw feed, I wouldn't know."

The exact spread between wildlife and livestock isn't known, but its probably saliva, uring and faeces (plus pus from open wounds). The bacteria for bovine TB is Mycobacterium bovis, which will infect anything - a characteristic of the Mycobacterium family. It is a risk to your dog, if low.
Human TB is M. tuberculosis which is a little fussier, tending to stay in people.
 

Sharpie

Well-Known Member
Well, now it is public news, and the supplier's name (Natural Instinct) is out in the open. (£4.50/day to feed a posh cat, good grief, how much meat does a cat eat ?).

They've re-called it ? Well you wouldn't know that from their website. Raw Dog Food & Raw Cat Food in UK | Natural Instinct

It seems that cats fed raw venison (allegedly inspected and passed fit for human consumption) have been catching bovine TB from it, and even infecting their owners.

Suggestion: don't be tempted to eat venison steak tartare (I have made my own, and it was delicious), or under-cook your burgers (I like them pink in the middle, but no longer).

I use a meat thermometer for joints, and am confident, at least hopeful, that they are safe, even though I like them very rare in the middle. 60 degrees C or so.

However now skeptical about sous-vide, which I have experimented with, low 50s temperature for rare, with a flash in a pan to sear the outside to finish..

I'll just have to assume that any venison might have TB, even though it shows no signs. Actually I already do, but this looks like confirmation.

From The Times today:

"
Posh ‘natural’ pet food recalled as cats and their owners develop bovine tuberculosis
Fifty pedigree animals on a pricy gourmet diet have been taken ill and at least one has died, with two people also infected

Jonathan Leake, Science Editor
May 19 2019, 12:01am,
The Sunday Times

A luxury cat food designed for pedigree pets has triggered an outbreak of a deadly strain of tuberculosis that has infected 50 cats and at least two of their owners.

The “natural cat” wild venison cat food has been subjected to a nationwide recall by Natural Instinct, the company which sold it to thousands of cat owners as a healthier alternative to mass-produced pet food.

It follows research by veterinary scientists at Edinburgh University who investigated why 50 cats in 30 homes around Britain had developed bovine tuberculosis (bTB).

Almost all the cats were expensive pedigrees whose owners kept them indoors, meaning they had no contact with livestock or wild animals which can carry such infections. The one thing all the cats had in common was that they were fed Natural Instinct’s raw wild venison cat food which costs about £4.50 for two daily portions, compared with under 20p for a typical dried cat food.

“Our results provide compelling circumstantial evidence of an association between the commercial raw diet of these cats and their infections with bTB,” said the Edinburgh vets in a research paper published last week in the Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery.

Bovine TB is related to human TB and is now so common in UK cattle that strains are infecting wildlife such as badgers, foxes and deer.

For owners, such infections mean heartache — and huge vet bills. Gillian Groves, 35, and Michael, her husband, from Dumfries, bought two Bengal cats, Roxy and Amber, for £800 in 2013 to mark their engagement.

Late last year Roxy became ill and died; tests confirmed that bovine TB was the cause. The tests then showed that Amber had the disease as well. Groves has had to delay her plans to start a family, fearing that she or her husband could also be infected.

The couple faced £7,000 in bills for Roxy’s treatment, only £4,000 of which was covered by insurance, and a similar amount for Amber who needs daily antibiotics until at least July.

Danielle Gunn-Moore, professor of feline medicine at Edinburgh University, who co-authored the research, said: “Raw meat diets could be good for cats, in theory, but there is a clear risk of infection so checks are vital. It’s not just bTB — there’s also a risk of toxoplasmosis, salmonella and other pathogens.”

She and her colleagues gathered reports of bovine TB in cats in 30 households around the UK. The team had to test 90 felines and refer 100 people for tests. Two people have been found to be infected but more could emerge.

Natural Instinct said its venison came from wild deer shot in Britain via a supplier approved by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) with carcasses deemed fit for human consumption by its inspectors. It has contacted customers telling them to return or destroy the meat. It says it “continues to follow every food standard, hygiene regulation and best practice to produce raw pet food”.
 
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75

Well-Known Member
Was there not someone on here recently looking for info on potential TB risk in dog food? I can’t seem to find the thread though...
 

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