The cost of cull and trophy animals.

[MJ75]

Has anyone noticed the huge difference some companies charge for their trophy and cull animals? Some stalkers charge no cull fee, and you can buy the venison. Others charge a cull fee and you can keep it regardless of size. And others charge a cull fee and will then sell you the venison on top! If this is management stalking then IMHO it's taking the ****!

So whats a fair price for a cull buck? Shats a fair price for an 8 point trophy Sika stag? Is it fair that you are charged a cull fee and then have to pay for the venison? What does everyone think?

All the best.
MJ

 

[wadashot]

A fair price for culls beasts is the price of the stalk, about £65-£75 and then the current price of venison from the game dealer.

A fair price for a trophy sika stag is the price of the stalk, about £65-£75 and then the current price of venison from the game dealer.

You will probably have noticed no trophy fee!!

wadashot

 

[Beowulf]

I believe in paying for the stalkers time and tuition and the venison. If the stalker is good I give him a bottle of Malt whiskey as a thank you. If he is bad I don't go back and you get to hear it here. I have paid £175 for a cull buck plus venison £40. That West Country Sh-t house won't get my business again! The other side of the story is that the stalker has to pay for the stalking and the other expenses, so fair play to the honest chaps! There are some shady people out there though. I have heard from one bloke's own mouth that he pays for alot more land than he will ever need to keep the 'likes of you' (he ment novices like you and I) away from the deer! This was his justification to charge me so much. A double sting!!!

 

[JAYB]

wadashot,

I am not advocating greed but if a man is to make a living, how can he charge £65 for a days stalk and no trophy fee or whatever. If he owns the land it is not so bad, but, if he has to buy the stalking from an estate or whatever, he could well end up paying for someone else's stalking. That does not seem right to me.

I get my stalking free and am glad to pass it on to my friends for the same fee. However, if it was how I made my living, and had to pay for the stalking then I think a fair price could be arrived at.

I am sure that a professional could put the case far more comprehensively than I.

You may now shout at me.

John

 

[MJ75]

JAYB, Wadashot said £65 - £75 per stalk, not per day. Pro stalkers can take clients out for 2 stalks per day. So can easily make £150 per day, plus cull and or venison charges.

I'm not saying thats a good, bad or indifferent living as I don't know their costs.

 

[Beowulf]

Good point JayB but we all know the scammers are out there! £200 a day muntjac stalking, plus venison!!
By the way I'm sending up some busuits for my deer you have locked in your shed, I want him big and meaty for when I come up!

 

[MJ75]

I believe in paying for the stalkers time and tuition and the venison. If the stalker is good I give him a bottle of Malt whiskey as a thank you. If he is bad I don't go back and you get to hear it here. I have paid £175 for a cull buck plus venison £40. That West Country Sh-t house won't get my business again! The other side of the story is that the stalker has to pay for the stalking and the other expenses, so fair play to the honest chaps! There are some shady people out there though. I have heard from one bloke's own mouth that he pays for alot more land than he will ever need to keep the 'likes of you' (he ment novices like you and I) away from the deer! This was his justification to charge me so much. A double sting!!!

You know Beowulf, it's funny, but I'm not suprised about people buying up land to keep it as exclusive as possible. I fly fish, and many people do similar with the fishing rights.

 

[Beowulf]

Hi MJ,
Without giving too much away, can you tell me what part of the country the 'dodgy' stalker came from. He sounds familiar!

 

[Blaser3006]

In my opinion and experience £100.00 per day and definitely no cull fees; buy the venison if you want it.

Do be careful out there, some very shady characters about!

 

[wadashot]

JAYB.

You say that a stalker may have to pay for the stalking rights so has to charge accordingly to get his money back, this does bring back the old chestnut of stalkers buying up land for thousands of pounds and therefore making stalking a more exclusive sport.

I have said in the past that i would not pay for trophy animals, they do not interest me, but i don`t knock people for wanting to, but upwards of £500+ stalking fee+venison costs to shoot a deer is making it very exclusive, plus, why should any animal have a price on it`s head?

£65-£75 per stalk and the venison is to my mind enough!!!.

wadashot

In my opinion and experience £100.00 per day and definitely no cull fees; buy the venison if you want it.

Do be careful out there, some very shady characters about!

Does this include wildboar Blaser3006

 

[Fester]

Hi MJ75
Im lucky in the fact that i dont have to pay for my stalking & i have a few areas that i stalk over. 1 is virtually on my doorstep & have had some good roe & muntjac off there over the last few years. The other pieces of land are further away unfortunately.
I dont disagree with having to pay for stalking & i would do myself if it was a good area with good beasts on the land but i would not pay silly money for cull or trophy beasts. Trophy beasts dont appeal to me anyway.
As others have said there are some bodgit people out there whos just trying to scam the honest stalker out of his hard earned cash. I honestly feel for the people who aint as lucky as i am with having the land to stalk over & i have taken a select few honest people & friends out stalking FREE over the last couple of years on the land. I couldnt dream of charging people as i was in the same situation years ago myself when i couldnt get land to shoot over also i cant guaranty they will see anything let alone shoot anything Sometimes i walk or ride the quad over the ground & see deer about, one evening me & my mate walked over one field & spotted 9 deer. The next evening when i had the rifle with me there were none
Just watch out for the scammers mate as there are more of them about than honest people

 

[paul k]

As one who has been mostly a punter rather than a provider I have stalked with a number of professional stalkers.

I usually pay around £50/£65 for an accompanied stalk and expect to get a non-trophy head for that and a chance to buy the venison at the market rate. For an unaccompanied stalk I pay from £35 to £50 per session with the same deal on the venison but in reality I often get a better deal on the vension because the stalker doesn't want to drive out and collect it and gives a discount if I call his bluff.

I would expect to pay more for a trophy head if I wanted one but would expect to know what I was in for before I pulled the trigger and to refuse something I couldn't afford.

Most stalkers that I have been out with have more than one rifle out at a time, sometimes as many as four, so they are getting up to £260 plus the venison/trophy fees per session which I think is more than adequate. If he does the same again in the evening that's £520 for the day plus the venison and any trophy fees - not too bad methinks!

I should also say that I have never been out with a professional stalker that put me on ground that had few deer or had been overshot. One came close but I knew that he was shooting one area heavily and insisted on going elsewhere.

Now I know they are not out with clients every day, let alone four, but two or three days a week at this sort of rate is not too bad.

On the other hand I have in the past stalked 800 acres of the Chilterns free just to get the muntjac population down a bit, non-medal bucks and does only, (there were several medals on the ground) but if I shot one I paid £20 for the carcass and immediately sold it on to the local Chinese for £25 so no problem there.

 

[wadashot]

Just to reiterate what I am on about, cervus, and please forgive me for mentioning your name, knows of and is advertising roe stalking syndicate places in Hampshire for a limted number of guns, 10 to be precise at £1000 per gun per year, WITH, the option to buy the venison, and i would guess that it may be accompanied also. WOW, that`s £10000 that this estate is expecting for the stalking rights.

Sorry, but they really are taking the ****, and anyone joining must either be rich, 8) desparate :cry: or mentally unstable.

Sorry cervus

wadashot

 

[JAYB]

I was only pointing out that people have to make a living, and to apply a set of blanket rules can be a bit risky. I know there are robbers out there, and members have suffered at their hands, but the point I was trying to make is that they are not all the same. I am neither defending or decrying anybody. Just taking the middle ground, I think, our debates and arguments must be reasoned, otherwise they just become a one way tirade. That would make us no better than the bloody anti's, and MR B's bath dodger brigade, and I do believe gentlemen that we are way above that.

It is as always I am afraid a case of "Buyer Beware". The truth is that there are people who want trophies to the exclusion of all else, they have big guns, big wallets, and I suspect a little ?????. All the time there are these type of "sportsmen" out there, there will be professional stalkers willing to take their money. Same old story it is only the bad guys that we remember.

You may now continue shouting

John

 

[wadashot]

Never any shouting JAYB, just opinions and experiences.

My anger dosn`t come out with the likes of yourselves but the people who make it an expensive experience.

I have helped out and taken lots of people stalking on ground that i have had in the past for nowt, and charged others £60 per stalk.

In the early years me and a pal went stalking to Dorset with a big deerstalking concern down there, this was after a bout of foot and mouth. The guy who ran this outfit made a point of saying the the foot and mouth crisis had cost him £50,000 with the lack of stalking he could do with clients.!!!! This outfit had access to some big estates, one big one in Hertfordshire so in my mind must have been paying a fortune for the stalking rights.

I don`t really enjoy causing controversy if thats how it may come accross, with my opinions on this site, but i do think they are things that need to be discussed if we are to help newcomers to stalking.

wadashot

 

[stone]

i can understand where you are coming from here wadashot and is good that you are atill trying to help and as you say opinions are just that opinions,not something to be used as ammo,(not mean't to offend anyone)

i have spent thousands of pounds on stalking over the years and payed anything from £25 a stalk upto £180 a day on red hinds it is not that i am loaded more the opposite i do not hav any designer clothing except bargain rail deerhunter, nor did i have a nice car till last year ,no savings in the bank as it all went on shooting , i only look at stalking where i think the prices reflect the returns of my hard earned money
yes £65 is a reasonable rate for an outing fee upto £50 for a cull animal is also exceptable in some cases (CWD)
i used to pay £100 for roebucks(cull only) but the same outfiter never charged for fallow cull animals
but trophys pay the rent and put a little extra in the stalkers pocket or this is what i was mean't to believe with fuel costs and rising prices in stalking leases that hav been discussed in other postings and the rising price of living in this country ,i fear that trophy prices will not rise by a lot so it will hav to be recovered from else where, the likes of myself and others pockets as cull stalking is the biggest percentage of stalking i buy,
i too do not charge anyone who comes out with myself as i only hav fuel cost to cover on the bit of ground i have, so a carcass sold here and there helps
stone

 

[JAYB]

Does this mean we all agree?

Marvellous bloody marvellous.

John

 

[sikamalc]

What some people have forgotten here,is that no matter how much land someone has access to, whether its by payment in the form of a lease, or for free from a local farmer, depending on the size of the ground, the number of deer you should be able to take a limited amount of good heads per year!! if you want, which helps pay for the lease.

I cannot for the life of me see why people complain about this, especially other stalkers? After many years of taking clients out, mostly for good representative heads, or better if the chance occurs, I have always charged the same outing fee. I also tell clients I sell hunting experiances not killing experiances, and I do not hunt with a tape measure!

Myself I shot my first reasonable Roe buck this last season, I have yet to have it measured, but I estimate it will go Bronze possible silver. Its a small piece in West Sussex, and of the 9 outings this past season I took 6 bucks, only one to my own rifle. All the others were free, to friends and some people off this site. Not one penny changed hands.

In Scotland on my 8500 acre lease, I have to pay every year for the lease. It is a great deal of money, I own the entire rights, 5 other men pay a very nominal fee per year to take the hinds off, infact they pay less than three days money on most places. They have the use of the larder and can rent the house on the estate, shoot rabbits, fox and Red Grouse as well. Of the 9 stags I sold this year two where massive 8 pointers, i charged no more to the american clients, an all in price for everythign fully inclusive. And as you know someone of this site also enjoyed a week free on my lease, what you may not know is that the invite extended to two others as well, who due to unforseen circumstances couldnt make it. But still have an invite. This banging on about trophies is fine, but as with one area I hunt of 120,000 acres, if they do not reap the benefit of good deer management, whats the point in keeping the deer and employing the staff, THINK ABOUT IT.

There are greedy people out there, but do not tar everyone with the same brush!!! Trophy hunting sustainably managed is good deer management, and pays for the upkeep of leases and also can help others.

 

[Fester]

Sikamalc
Well put across If all were as genuine as yourself we would be in a better situation with regards to paying for a stalk. Its hard for some to get stalking rights as you probably have found yourself in the past. I know of someone in norfolk who charges ridiculous prices & even more for the overseas victim. Its that i dont agree with & thats what could end up killing it for the genuine working class stalker who only has the option to pay for his stalking.
Covering costs & time i totally agree with & to get out with an experienced stalker is money well spent i think, but when it gets to greed rather than enjoyment then i think these people should be steered well clear of

 

[sikamalc]

Steyr 243. Yes you are right, when I started stalking back in the dark ages land was not easy to get even at that time. I was fortunate in that I was introduced to stalking by someone who was a hill keeper, and shot my first deer a red hind with his 308, we still see each other, and very occasionally stalk togther, but not these past 2 years as he has had some family problems.

What people must also consider is that to attain permission and access to ground does not happen overnight. My small business guiding clients over what is now a great many acres with all the species, has taken over 20 years!! a great deal of hard work, time and not to mention a certain amount of my money, which I work bloody hard for. These things are not given to anyone, and a great deal comes through treating people fairly and being honest. I will not bang on about it too much, but this attitude by stalkers, OHHH i dont agree with trophy hunting. So if you had nice piece of Roe stalking, you would not consider taking an old mature buck with a large head that had come to the end of his life you would rather see him die with his teeth worn down and his carcase feeding the crows and foxes
Well you are not managing your deer correctly then are you if your answer is yes. :cry: If you decide to sell it to a client or to give it to a friend who you owe a great favour too what is wrong in this.

To give you some idea of the costs involved, this past season in one months stalking with clients, I racked up nearly £1800 in diesel alone, and have now put nearly 14,000 miles on my truck in 7 months. Who pays for this then plus the upkeep of the vehicle, let alone the hire vehicles I and the other three professional guides who stalk for me used.