The perfect shot.

A Guy Out West

Well-Known Member
#1
This subject was mentioned in the post on the single shot rifle. That post has gotten way too long in the tooth, so I'm not going to add to it. Some seem to think "the perfect shot" means the games goes down instantly and dies right there. That happens in some perfect shots, but not all. A perfect shot is one in which the animal will die shortly after being hit. I'm talking seconds or minutes or in some cases instantly. Why do some animals hit straight through the heart die and drop instantly and others run off a 100 yards or more and die? Answer: it depends. It depends on what the animals heart was doing when it was shot. If it was in the contraction mode when hit, the blood pressure will spike and may burst blood vessels in the brain and down it goes. If it was not beating at the moment of being hit, it may run off even if shot through the heart. There are other factors involved too, but I think the above is the biggest. I gleaned this from an article I read in Outdoor Life years ago. I believe it is a solid explanation.
 

baguio

Well-Known Member
#2
This subject was mentioned in the post on the single shot rifle. That post has gotten way too long in the tooth, so I'm not going to add to it. Some seem to think "the perfect shot" means the games goes down instantly and dies right there. That happens in some perfect shots, but not all. A perfect shot is one in which the animal will die shortly after being hit. I'm talking seconds or minutes or in some cases instantly. Why do some animals hit straight through the heart die and drop instantly and others run off a 100 yards or more and die? Answer: it depends. It depends on what the animals heart was doing when it was shot. If it was in the contraction mode when hit, the blood pressure will spike and may burst blood vessels in the brain and down it goes. If it was not beating at the moment of being hit, it may run off even if shot through the heart. There are other factors involved too, but I think the above is the biggest. I gleaned this from an article I read in Outdoor Life years ago. I believe it is a solid explanation.
Sounds totally made up to me? How would anyone know what state of beating its heart was at on being shot? What I do know is that if the deer hasn't seen you then it's probably going to flop straight onto the floor. If it's on high alert and staring you out at the time, then there is a much higher chance that it will run on being shot.
 

Tom D

Well-Known Member
#3
Sounds totally made up to me? How would anyone know what state of beating its heart was at on being shot? What I do know is that if the deer hasn't seen you then it's probably going to flop straight onto the floor. If it's on high alert and staring you out at the time, then there is a much higher chance that it will run on being shot.
That's my experience too.
i think there maybe something in the heart idea, but the instant pole axe has more to do with a shock to the CNS. I notice that if a bone is struck the shock seems to drop the beast on the spot. But if you go between the ribs it's more likely to run.
 

ejg

Well-Known Member
#5
Even if some don't believe it, it also has something to do with the bullet and it's speed. Shoot a deer side on with a 22lr it will run very far, same bullet weight from a 223 or 22-250 it will go down instantly or say much more instantly. Bullet speed and energy makes a difference. The few Sika deer I shot with a 22-250 in the chest all dropped on the spot, every Sika I saw shot with the same shot placement out of a 6.5x55 with 156 bullet just ran away to die 100-200 yards later.
I mainly use 308 for deer and most run about 10-50yds with H/L shot. Put the bullet an inch below the spine and they go down on the spot possibly due to spinal concussion.
For some it doesn't matter if deer run 100-200yds but in our country it can mean the deer is lost as it could run onto another persons land.
edi
 

Eddie P

Well-Known Member
#7
I subscribe to the cns concussion camp. This shock wave should hopefully propagate through the cns.

A perfect shock will have enough blood vessel or organ trauma that the animal bleeds out before regaining consciousness.

I don't believe that the point in the cardiac cycle makes significant if any difference.
 

A Guy Out West

Well-Known Member
#8
I should have mentioned this in my initial post, autopsys were done on the animals that the article was based on, the animals that went straight down all had burst blood vessels in the brain. The animals that did not go straight down did not have burst blood vessels in the brain. If I remember correctly, the article was written by Jim Charmichael.
 

Eddie P

Well-Known Member
#9
I should have mentioned this in my initial post, autopsys were done on the animals that the article was based on, the animals that went straight down all had burst blood vessels in the brain. The animals that did not go straight down did not have burst blood vessels in the brain. If I remember correctly, the article was written by Jim Charmichael.
How was the point in the cardiac cycle determined?
 

Ranger22

Well-Known Member
#10
If if the beast is alert, they tend to be the ones that will run after being shot. Beasts that are feeding or just going along doing their thing will tend to fall on the spot.
 
#12
Old saying"Vertical up the back of the front leg, horizontal half way up the thick bit". Ok they may run but they are dead, a little different to the neck or head shot in the slightly wrong place. That has to be the perfect shot.
 

ejg

Well-Known Member
#13
My guess wood rather be filled or empty lung. Filled Lung makes for a good shock absorber when the temporary cavity from the entering bullet expands. Air compresses quicker and easier than flesh/skin expands. Result is less pressure in the chest.
edi
 

karamoja

Well-Known Member
#14
I will get my dad to explain it and I will write it up when I get back, on holiday at the moment. He was head of perfusion at Great Ormand street for years (heart bypass). But, it is something to do with rapid blood pressure drop causing a stroke. Obviously you can not predict the state of the heart at the shot. But he always used to say the best shot was to take the top of the aorta off. And the beast would be on the ground fast. His perfect shot. He would never eat the heart although he was not squimish about eating anything. He always said he could not do it after years in the theatre.
Cheers Karamoja
 

Uncas

Well-Known Member
#15
If the beast is alert there must be a certain amount of adrenalin running through it's body surely that would make a difference.
 

Eddie P

Well-Known Member
#16
I will get my dad to explain it and I will write it up when I get back, on holiday at the moment. He was head of perfusion at Great Ormand street for years (heart bypass). But, it is something to do with rapid blood pressure drop causing a stroke. Obviously you can not predict the state of the heart at the shot. But he always used to say the best shot was to take the top of the aorta off. And the beast would be on the ground fast. His perfect shot. He would never eat the heart although he was not squimish about eating anything. He always said he could not do it after years in the theatre.
Cheers Karamoja
Putting a hv bullet through the aorta would cause a shock wave to propogate through the circulation. I assume that this would cause rapid increase in blood pressure to the point of causing an haemorrhagic stroke when it burst blood vessels.
 

kes

Well-Known Member
#17
I'd go for adrenelin. Very strong when disturbed and non -existent when caught without warning. I believe the insurgents in afghan used adrenelin to carry on after being shot.
 

rem284

Well-Known Member
#18
Shot placement is important. A shot through the the shoulder(preferably both) will have a higher chance of a bang flop result compared to the traditional heart shot. Down side is you tend to spoil a bit more meat. The two other things which are both linked together is bullet design and speed of bullet. The speed is one of the key factors per given weight of bullet since if you double the speed of a object the terminal energy is quadrupled. I think this is one of the reasons why rounds with a high velocities like the 25-06 "hard hitting". Another factor as already mentioned is whether or not the beast has adrenaline activated. The shot through the shoulders has two effects, firstly the bullet hitting bone makes it open up more than hitting soft tissue. Also the shoulder shot being closer to the spine of the beast compared to the traditional heart shot means the shock to the cns means the beast is effectively "knocked out" and before it can recover from this, the damage to the heart and lungs has taken effect along with the loss in blood pressure. This is the way a vet who was into shooting explained it.
 
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Ranger22

Well-Known Member
#19
Sika stag feeding away, no idea I was there. So what happened next? Did it drop on the spot, take a few steps then drop or did it run.

Entry wound



exit wound

 

riflerob

Well-Known Member
#20
My first thought is that there's not a lot of expansion going on there !

Looking at the shot placement, it looks to be dead on the upper part of the heart, or on the aorta. Unaware beast, I'd say flop shot, or maybe a couple of steps.
 

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