The Pope

deerstalker.308

Well-Known Member
#2
I think the point is the Muslim religion is not the problem, this is a cult/sect of lunatics parading under a banner of Islam but that most Muslims would denounce as anything but holy or related to the beliefs they hold dear.
 

TonyR

Well-Known Member
#3
I think the point is the Muslim religion is not the problem, this is a cult/sect of lunatics parading under a banner of Islam but that most Muslims would denounce as anything but holy or related to the beliefs they hold dear.
I am sure you are correct but I would be more convinced if more Muslims openly denounced these people and reported the ones they have suspicions about to the Police.

Tony
 

deerstalker.308

Well-Known Member
#4
I am sure you are correct but I would be more convinced if more Muslims openly denounced these people and reported the ones they have suspicions about to the Police.

Tony
They were interviewing one such chap today on the radio, he had regular open dialogue with our security services and said that that was what set Britain apart from the recent events in Germany and France, that we do have a lot more of that kind of interaction than most of us will ever know about.
 

Rasputin

Well-Known Member
#5
Well when you preside over a large amount of historical child abusers I would guess his compass is a bit off at times!

I dislike religion immensely and even more so when it's forced onto people. I also don't like MENA Islam having lived out in the Middle East I find their views antiquated at best and can't possibly see how it interacts with western society. People will raise the arguments about our large swathes of moderate Muslims which I agree with on the whole ours are more moderate but when the day comes to choose between country and faith I can't see it going favourably for non Muslims. With the falling oil price, political instability in the region and even things like climate change I can't possibly see it ending well so to that end in a small part I agree with the pope but obviously their is a cancer within the faith.
 

Hereford

Well-Known Member
#6
As much as I don't care to subscribe to any religion, I do believe the world would be a lot darker place without it - you have to consider how much anger and retaliation is mitigated and diffused by a strong belief of being peaceful, understanding and forgiving - imagine if that did not exist? It would truly be a free for all
 

rodp

Well-Known Member
#8
As much as I don't care to subscribe to any religion, I do believe the world would be a lot darker place without it - you have to consider how much anger and retaliation is mitigated and diffused by a strong belief of being peaceful, understanding and forgiving - imagine if that did not exist? It would truly be a free for all

Religion really does bring a lot of peace to a lot of people. As you say, the world would be a worse place without it.
 

TonyR

Well-Known Member
#9
They were interviewing one such chap today on the radio, he had regular open dialogue with our security services and said that that was what set Britain apart from the recent events in Germany and France, that we do have a lot more of that kind of interaction than most of us will ever know about.
I suspect that you are correct about the interaction but would think most of it is instigated by our security services .I find it difficult to believe that someone who genuinely had regular open dialogue with the security services would come on the radio and admit to it or that the Security services would let him do it.
Tony
 
#10
Religion is the cancer what ever flavour you choose..
What a caustic comment that one is, and unfortunately so many people hold the same opinion.
It is possible to have strong religious beliefs without being a menace to society and to live a normal life in harmony with others whilst trying to practice those beliefs for the good of all. Unfortunately the Islamic religion is a total way of life and detrimental to our type of society, but not all religion is carcinogenic.
 

paultap

Well-Known Member
#11
I think that unfortunately it is only a matter of time before something very ugly and substancial happens here again, it looks like the guy from the RAF base had a lucky escape very recently.

I would say that with the dumbing down of the police and armed forces here, that we are less able to react quickly to major incidents than the other countries that have been recently been targeted, especially when you take into consideration that the vast majority of our police patrol unarmed and therefore have to wait for a firearms team to turn up.

It is very interesting to note that the two murderers in France in the sickening church incident were shot dead immediately and not given a chance to surrender... I doubt that would have happened here with our softly softly approach.

It always amazes me that the killers want to live in a western country and take advantage of all its benefits only to commit these crimes in the name of some so called anti- Western religious ideology.

This might sound too extreme and unjustifiable, but I wonder if they would commit these murders if they knew that afterwards any residing family members would immediately be deported back to their country of origin! In a lot of cases I am sure that this would be a far more effective method of dissuading these people.
 
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#12
A man who was born in Argentina but now lives and works in a "state" (courtesy of the polite fiction of the Lateran Treaty, ratified by the fascist Mussolini) that is smaller than most Scottish public parks and enjoys an open border within the Schengen Area, has the impertinence to tell European countries to tear down borders ..
 

Wapinschaw

Well-Known Member
#14
It is very interesting to note that the two murderers in France in the sickening church incident were shot dead immediately and not given a chance to surrender... I doubt that would have happened here with our softly softly approach]

I think that shoot ASAP has to be the new standard approach in incidents of this nature. The nun who escaped and raised the alarm probably gave a description of the attackers, the first responders must now assume that firearms and/or explosives are present in an incident of this nature, therefore shooting identified attackers before they can detonate a device or open fire is the only way to bring the incident to a close. We have to hope that when (NOT if) it next happens here in the UK there are suitably armed resources available within a realistic timeframe, and that we don't have another mistaken identity tragedy.
 

Cris

Well-Known Member
#15
I disagree unfortunately. Religion has brought the human race nothing but suffering pain and division. Individuals may take comfort from it and a sense of community but overall the balance tips the other end way.
Good people do not have to be religious people nor do bad people either.
 

skywull

Well-Known Member
#17
I don't think religion its self has brought the human race nothing but pain and suffering, but I do believe its representitives and leaders have over hundreds of years ...nothing changes
 

flying felix

Well-Known Member
#18
Religion is a crutch for the emotional immature who cannot deal with reality and a means of controling the masses. Even all the good deeds undertaken in the neme of religion are conducted for purley selfish means.
 

Wapinschaw

Well-Known Member
#19
Religion, much like government is just a form of control.
Indeed. I think that the present form of the major religions developed in mediaeval times as a joint conspiracy between religious and State leaders as means of scaring the peasantry into subservience, (Do as we say, of the fires of damnation await etc!!) while keeping the religious and State leaders in their positions of wealth and power.
 

deerstalker.308

Well-Known Member
#20
Whatever happened to respecting other people's beliefs and values..... People create wars, it's human nature, religion itself isn't to blame. Mankind is the issue. And that's coming from an atheist by the way, but I'm prepared to accept people who hold beliefs different to my own. if it wasn't religion to blame it would be cultural identity or race wars.... The bottom line is its people. We must move away from the thinking that Muslims are bad, they're no worse than Christians, Jews, or any other religion. The people we are 'fighting' are not representative of the Muslim faith.
 

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