Thermal Scope

DEER STALKER

Well-Known Member
What's the best Thermal Scope on the market for fox control under 5K and how do they compare to the NV? Went out with a friend last night and counted nearly 20 fox on his farm with the Pulsar HD50s but as soon as we got in range and the lamp went on they were off. It became obvious why when we came across two different lots of lurcher men all in 4X4's chasing the fox and deer around. We managed to shoot the 3 foxes that did stand long enough but would like to get the numbers down more efficiently.


Thanks

DS
 

DEER STALKER

Well-Known Member
Looked at these already this morning, what's the difference/advantage between the WT 75-3 and 75-6? Anyone on here got them - what you think?
 

Reiver Boy

Well-Known Member
I use Pulsar Apex XD50, its excellent, I know some prefer the 75 but I personally like a wider field of view and have never found the magnification on the 50 to be lacking, positive ID is easy once you have had a bit of practice, you will know when you see a fox.
 

mealiejimmy

Well-Known Member
Let me make it clear that I am in no way associated with Clive Ward or any of the products he sells. The comments below are based on my own knowledge and experience of using thermal spotters and scopes over the last 3-4 years.
The 75-3 uses a 384x288 pixel sensor and the 75-6 uses a 640x480 pixel sensor. Otherwise they are identical.
The resolution (i.e the area covered by one pixel at a specific distance) is the same for both scopes, but since the 75-6 has more pixels you finish up with a wider field of view (which means lower magnification)
I have a 75-6 (bought direct from China, long before Clive ward started selling them) but the 75-3 is probably better value for money.
I'd have either of the Ward scopes before any of the Pulsar Apex models for the following reasons:
The Ward scopes use 17 micron sensor technology against the 25 micron sensor technology in the Pulsar Apex scopes - this give the Ward scopes better resolution and higher magnification. Also, Pulsar don't do a scope with 640x480 pixels, only 388x284
The Ward scopes use an 800x600 OLED display against the 640x480 OLED in the Pulsars - IMHO, this gives the Ward a better quality image than the Pulsars.
The Ward scopes have x2 and x4 digital zoom, The Pulsars only have x2
The Ward scopes use f1.0 lenses, the Pulsars use f1.2 lenses on the 38 and 50, but f1.4 on the 75
An f1.4 lens lets in half the heat of an f1.0 lens, so the Ward is actually more sensitive to small changes in temperature than the Pulsar. This translates to a more detailed image.
The Pulsars have that annoying calibration routine where the shutter clicks in front of the sensor and the image is lost for a few seconds while the sensor sorts itself out.
The Ward scopes don't do that, there is no shutter and the no loss of image. Calibration (correctly called Non Uniformity Correction) is automatic - you don't know it's happening.

Cheers

Bruce
 
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DEER STALKER

Well-Known Member
Thanks Bruce. Where's the best/cheapest place to buy them? Anyone give a reason not to buy a 75-3 or 75-6 against a particular NV set up?
 

Eric the Red

Well-Known Member
Thanks Bruce. Where's the best/cheapest place to buy them? Anyone give a reason not to buy a 75-3 or 75-6 against a particular NV set up?
For me, the jury is still out on thermal vermin shooting, particularly in difficult ground where there's long grass, hedges, trees etc. that give variable thermal signatures. Absolutely no question on thermal spotting - a no brainer - but good NV gives you the SIGHT picture you need to assess the target and fore (and back) ground properly IMHO.

I have shot with thermal, but I prefer to shoot with good NV.

A little anecdote: I was out the other evening. I watched a fox slide down a field, full of sheep. I thought I knew where it was going, so I moved maybe 40m to a good shooting spot. Got there - wide open field - no fox. Watched and watched - nothing - but a bunny bobbing around caught my attention to the extent I wanted to know what it was doing. NV on. laser on.......it was the fox. It was sat effectively behind a dead sheep, getting a good nosh from the belly - lifting it's head occasionally, which is what I was seeing. It was a dead fox the next time it lifted it's head. There is no way I would have been able to correctly identify that (although with this experience I may look differently in future) as the dead sheep had no obvious heat signature in thermal, but the eyes and definition in NV made it a very clear and obvious shot.
 

mealiejimmy

Well-Known Member
Thanks Bruce. Where's the best/cheapest place to buy them? Anyone give a reason not to buy a 75-3 or 75-6 against a particular NV set up?
Clive Ward sells them (obviously)
I've seen Starlight advertising the same product under their "Icarus" brand, but I don't think they have their supply change as well sorted as Clive Ward. A couple of guys I know contacted Julian at Starlight for price and availability but didn't get much of an answer.

Cheers

Bruce
 

mealiejimmy

Well-Known Member
For me, the jury is still out on thermal vermin shooting, particularly in difficult ground where there's long grass, hedges, trees etc. that give variable thermal signatures. Absolutely no question on thermal spotting - a no brainer - but good NV gives you the SIGHT picture you need to assess the target and fore (and back) ground properly IMHO.

I have shot with thermal, but I prefer to shoot with good NV.

There's no argument that thermal scopes are not the perfect solution in every circumstance, and personal preference also comes into it.
I have no experience of tubed NV, but with digital NV such as the Drone Pro, Yukon Photon, Pulsar N870 etc, one of the biggest problems is the reflection from grass and other organic material which can often cause the camera to "white out)

A little anecdote: I was out the other evening. I watched a fox slide down a field, full of sheep. I thought I knew where it was going, so I moved maybe 40m to a good shooting spot. Got there - wide open field - no fox. Watched and watched - nothing - but a bunny bobbing around caught my attention to the extent I wanted to know what it was doing. NV on. laser on.......it was the fox. It was sat effectively behind a dead sheep, getting a good nosh from the belly - lifting it's head occasionally, which is what I was seeing. It was a dead fox the next time it lifted it's head. There is no way I would have been able to correctly identify that (although with this experience I may look differently in future) as the dead sheep had no obvious heat signature in thermal, but the eyes and definition in NV made it a very clear and obvious shot.
There's no argument that thermal scopes are not the perfect solution in every circumstance, and personal preference also comes into it.
I have no experience of tubed NV, but with digital NV such as the Drone Pro, Yukon Photon, Pulsar N870 etc, one of the biggest problems is the reflection of IR from grass, stubble, bushes etc which can often cause the camera to "white out".
As a counter example to your experience with a fox chewing on a dead sheep, I was easily spotting rabbits in a field with the thermal spotter, but when I tried to see them with the NV, the crop reflected so much IR that it was impossible to see any eyeshine.
It should also be remembered that both tubed and digital NV largely depend on eye shine to detect and target the quarry - and that means that the quarry needs to have at least one eye exposed to the IR source.
Thermal doesn't need that, every part of the animals' body is emitting heat.
I've shot several foxes with the thermal scope that were moving away from me and could not be seen at all clearly with NV

Cheers

Bruce
 

Eric the Red

Well-Known Member
It should also be remembered that both tubed and digital NV largely depend on eye shine to detect and target the quarry - and that means that the quarry needs to have at least one eye exposed to the IR source.
Sorry, what? Not the case at all. I'll grant you an eye flash makes an animal more obvious, but it is straightforward to pick an animal out.

Tubed is a very different experience from digital, but both will do it. You need to manage IR a bit more carefully perhaps with digital.
 

DeerDucksFishin

Well-Known Member
xd75 rifle mounted the foxes dont even know your coming
What's the best Thermal Scope on the market for fox control under 5K and how do they compare to the NV? Went out with a friend last night and counted nearly 20 fox on his farm with the Pulsar HD50s but as soon as we got in range and the lamp went on they were off. It became obvious why when we came across two different lots of lurcher men all in 4X4's chasing the fox and deer around. We managed to shoot the 3 foxes that did stand long enough but would like to get the numbers down more efficiently.


Thanks

DS
 

Barmyfarner

Well-Known Member
What's the best Thermal Scope on the market for fox control under 5K and how do they compare to the NV? Went out with a friend last night and counted nearly 20 fox on his farm with the Pulsar HD50s but as soon as we got in range and the lamp went on they were off. It became obvious why when we came across two different lots of lurcher men all in 4X4's chasing the fox and deer around. We managed to shoot the 3 foxes that did stand long enough but would like to get the numbers down more efficiently.


Thanks

DS
Decided on which thermal scope your going for yet DS?
 

mark@mbb

Well-Known Member
Thermal

You don't need thermal we use a PVs 14 as a spotter and a D760 as a dedicated night scope and it is perfect we also have a guide 518c but this hardly gets used gen 3 is good enough
 

SussexFallow

Well-Known Member
I was out with Clive a couple of weeks back for a demo of his wt75-3
on switching the unit on my first word was "F@&K" followed by "S%*T" followed by "oohh" then a few more expletives and once I'd stopped dribbling and managed to compose myself explained I wasn't expecting anywhere near that quality.
We checked over a field and I could clearly spot badgers and bunnies and 600 odd yards away a fox.
I had my new pulsar xq38 with me and the difference was immense. Clive's scope won hands down. Not even close. This is the 3rd pulsar thermal spotter I've owned so I'm used to identifying quarry this way. I've had my eye on the eyepiece of most of the top end tubed nv and all the digital offerings. Thermal scopes won't be for everyone but it does offer something different for those that want it. I had a PVS14 that was awesome. I sold it to buy a drone pro in March 2014 which was a devastating combo with a thermal spotter. Next on the shopping list is a scope from Clive. Incidentally the starlight Icarus offering looks to have a similar spec as the one from Mr Ward but with a 2k extra price tag
 

SussexFallow

Well-Known Member
No I haven't but Clive uses the 75-3 himself and did explain the difference. I'm sure he'd be happy to explain it to you. I learnt from our brief meeting that he is interested in what he sells more than actually being a salesman!! He gets my vote for that.
 

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