They don't understand....

Si

Well-Known Member
How can I explain to people that I'm not a sadistic killer who gets off on shooting animals?.... and that I actually enjoy watching wildlife in it's natural environment?
I've been getting some stick lately, mainly from work collegues but I don't rise to it for fear of escalating the debate.
Yes it's true, I do enjoy hunting but I also enjoy walks in the countryside with my family and just because we see a deer and fawn or fox cubs playing doesn't mean I want to go and get my gun.

:confused:
 

timbrayford

Well-Known Member
How can I explain to people that I'm not a sadistic killer who gets off on shooting animals?.... and that I actually enjoy watching wildlife in it's natural environment?
I've been getting some stick lately, mainly from work collegues but I don't rise to it for fear of escalating the debate.
Yes it's true, I do enjoy hunting but I also enjoy walks in the countryside with my family and just because we see a deer and fawn or fox cubs playing doesn't mean I want to go and get my gun.

:confused:
Take a more relaxed approach on this, after all it can be a little odd that someone does not wish to hunt, shoot or fish, let alone eat food derived from these activities. You owe no one any sort of explanation,this is a defensive attitude that the country sport community as a whole has adopted as a result of a sustained and vociferous attack by animal rights activists. If your circumstances permit invite them to accompany you on your activities, after all you are participating in a perfectly normal activity.:cool:
 

adjman

Well-Known Member
If people are too blinkered to acknowledge what you do in your spare time is legitimate and valid then they really are not worth the effort. The shooting community is one of the most welcoming and friendly communities I have ever had the pleasure of being part of, and we all understand. It is always hard to bring that understanding to others, particularly people who have the "disney" view of the countryside and don't understand how mother nature actually works. I have lost "friends" recently because I chose to return to shooting, but I can honestly say I have had a lot of support from many of my other friends. Very often life is about working out who is worth having around you, and whilst this can be more difficult in a work scenario, it holds true there as well.

There is of course the sneaky back-door tactic of bringing nice food into work and waiting until everyone has tucked in and says how nice it is to inform them that without your sport they would never have tasted it?
 

Gazza

Well-Known Member
You are asking for the impossible. I have never understood why guys would wish to follow/support a football team but accept that some are absolutely fanatical. There are people who will just never understand what makes guys like you and me have an inbuilt love and appreciation of our countryside and all that it holds yet can go out there and get enjoyment from pitting our skills against a bird or animal with the intent of killing it. Doesn't seem logical but we know that it is. They cannot see or feel what you see and feel, just like I cannot see why guys would spend money following their team, encourage their family to follow the team like they are Gods, travel to all parts of the world to watch them play, name their children after their favourite player, have tattoos displaying their lifelong support.
I do not hide what I do and if asked, will try to explain, but I do appreciate that not everybody shares my views and to be honest always temper my conversation regarding my way of life depending on my audience. Not because I am hiding it but just out of respect for anothers who may not agree with what I do.
 

adjman

Well-Known Member
I do not hide what I do and if asked, will try to explain, but I do appreciate that not everybody shares my views and to be honest always temper my conversation regarding my way of life depending on my audience. Not because I am hiding it but just out of respect for anothers who may not agree with what I do.
Very well said Gazza
 

Si

Well-Known Member
I don't go round bragging about what I've shot, but last week I showed someone at work a photo of a fox that I'd shot on my phone... this sparked a debate. He could understand shooting a rabbit if you intend to eat it but he said "killing a fox is pointless, you don't eat foxes" I tried to explain that foxes kill lambs and chickens and pheasant poults but he was adamant that shooting a fox for the reason I gave is interfering with nature.
Since that conversation I have had a few digs and jibes about being cruel, sick, sadistic and even perverted, saying "does it give you a hard on?"
This same bloke knows I keep chickens and regularly accepts free eggs off me.... not anymore PAL :evil:
 

caorach

Well-Known Member
I suspect there are, in the general population, basically three types of people, and this would apply to any activity:

Those who support what you do and might even do it themselves.

Those who don't care about it too much but are interested to hear what you get up to in a general "what did you do at the weekend" way.

Those who are fundamentally opposed to what you do.

You are never going to convert the 3rd group as they already have a position and they will spend time trying to convert the 2nd group to their position while demonising the first group - a form of politically correct bullying. However, you can also talk to the 2nd group and at least make a reasonable case for your position. Perhaps someone with strongly held anti-shooting views is stirring up the people you work with? On the other hand maybe they are just doing it for a laugh because they know you feel strongly about it? I think, however, that if you put your mind to it you can probably make some progress as most people, no matter what their position, have some interest in something that goes bang and sends a little bullet hundreds of yards to a target so there is scope to take them to the range, for example, and allow them to see that it is fun and that there is no evil intent. You might be amazed at who takes you up on the offer to give it a try.

In my workplace, or at least my department of about 40 people, (you have to trust me when I say that their isn't a more politically correct, communist infiltrated organisation with a higher proportion of do-gooders and interferring busy bodies in the UK) the number of people who shoot now make up a significant proportion of the total and shooting is probably the biggest single activity in the workplace. I've taken people out and others have as well and over time some of these people have taken up various aspects of shooting - we recently converted a new deer stalker who I took to the range and then took stalking and who has now done his DSC1. There are also a reasonable number of non-shooters who could be considered "interested" and who view shooting in a positive light and I occasionally give vension to various people I work with - it is tricky to view something as negative when you benefit from it. We occasionally have a few anti type comments but to be honest most are in jest rather than serious, just as I would keep football fans going about watching a bunch of big girls blouses rolling about on a pitch clutching their leg and crying for their mummy. The success or failure of the latest shooting trip is now a common theme for discussion in our canteen.

So, even in your situation I'd say it is possible to make progress - pick them off one at a time and offer to take them to the range for a bit of a laugh some weekend for example.
 

Sinistral

Well-Known Member
Si,

I sympathised with you in your opening post, but not with the later one. You could expect no other response because you left your colleague no exit. He was forced to confront a reality he'd rather not face. It's too stark for most, even for those who aren't squeamish.

I don't get a buzz out of pics. of dead fox or deer posted by others. Why do it? Stringing these together into a gallery seems more than a bit weird to me. Even worse is parading snaps of the slain before non-shooters, which has to be a big mistake because it's so pointless. This could have no other outcome other than make you look very odd. It's willie waggling. :p

There was an earlier post today by a 'Josh' of a lot of dead boar under the title 'bored' which I thought was both stupid and crass. This is the sort of thing that alienates people, and does nothing to advance the cause of shooting. OK it's an achievement of sorts but it's not as if the OP had run these pigs down, and killed them with his bare hands.

You just have to accept the world as it is, and get on with your sport. There's no need to conceal it, but don't stuff it down the throats of others.
 

Si

Well-Known Member
I did realise at the time that showing the photo was probably not the smartest thing to do, but the conversation that proceeded it which led me to show him the picture had me believing that he was interested in the fact that I shot a fox. He already knew that I've shot rabbits before and never bat an eyelid.... I daren't tell him I shoot deer as well.
If it was just the one individual I'd tell him to get stuffed but a few others seem to have joined his crusade now. And the subject has even touched on racism but I'd rather not go into that.
 

news of the world

Well-Known Member
Si,
I have a simple response for people like the ones you describe," you do not agree with what I do, but you find it acceptable that somebody else kills the meat you eat".

Everbody on this planet should not be allowed to eat meat unless they find that they themselves could actually kill it,only a hippocrite would condemn you then tuck into steak..
 

Paul at Fechan

Well-Known Member
I like to point out that the foxing I do helps prevent the loss of lambs, chickens, gamebirds and ground game species that they might see when they get of their townie arse and venture into the green that they clearly don't understand.

Mind you most weeks at school I have a fox tail in a jar in the workshop and the kids at least get it when I explain why I bash charlie. The really get interested when you've got a fluffy tail hanging up drying. It's the adults with these dumb ideas about cute foxes that are the problem because they know better having see some crap on The One Show or whatever.

If they don't like that I usually wind them up for being townie pork that can only get its food at tesco.
 

VSS

Well-Known Member
Interesting point from Paul about the adults being the problem.
Did any one see this:

>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/8928988/Young-carnivores-should-be-taught-the-truth.html#.TthlMD8eoAM.mailto

I always find that kids are genuinely fascinated by these things, and have no qualms about being involved. My kids (14, 11 and 9, one boy, two girls)help out regularly with slaughtering and butchery and have done since they were tiny.
But, for some reason, the adults are always affected. As per the link above, I don't reckon any of the kids were "traumatised", but the parents probably were, at the thought of it! Why is it that kids become indoctrinated (at around about puberty age) by the strange values of todays grown up society? And why do adults see things so differently? The contrast between the attitude of Paul's pupils at school and Si's grown up work mates is typical.
 

Gazza

Well-Known Member
Great saying Si - When you are in a hole stop digging. It seems that your office debate just might end with everyone forever in dispute, taking sides, not talking and on it goes . Racism raising it's ugly head, you considering that because others have different views they are somehow ignorant etc etc. Personally I would approach the guy who you showed the photograph to and apologise for any upset your unwitting action has caused. I certainly would not apologise for what you do but I would quite reasonably ask him just to accept that you legally shoot foxes to protect livestock. I would not argue that your view is the right one no matter how they come by there food. To an anti it will never be right no matter what evidence you produce.
I am a gamekeeper/deer manager and through this shoot a good few foxes/deer. Being honest I find no interest whatsoever in the many pictures that appear in this and other forums . Unless there is something of particular interest it is just another photograph of a dead fox/deer. Showing these types of pictures to a person who does not shoot is perhaps just asking for a negative response.
 

finnbear270

Well-Known Member
Si,
I have a simple response for people like the ones you describe," you do not agree with what I do, but you find it acceptable that somebody else kills the meat you eat".

Everbody on this planet should not be allowed to eat meat unless they find that they themselves could actually kill it,only a hippocrite would condemn you then tuck into steak..
An excellent response, & I would add why do you think nature gave you canine teeth?.............. to kill carrots?
 

Lateral

Well-Known Member
Si,
I have a simple response for people like the ones you describe," you do not agree with what I do, but you find it acceptable that somebody else kills the meat you eat".

Everbody on this planet should not be allowed to eat meat unless they find that they themselves could actually kill it,only a hippocrite would condemn you then tuck into steak..

I find this argument a little simplistic, and to be honest, pretty lame.

Where do you want to draw the line, not eating fish unless you're prepared to go out on a trawler ? work on an oil rig, so we can drive our cars, and heat our houses ? Or, how many of us would really want to work down the sewers, so................... no, I won't go there ;)

I have several friends who shoot, and we'll happily discuss our trips/successes, as will I talk to other like minded people, who unsurprisingly are friendly, and welcoming, as are most groups of people with a common interest.

However, I don't go around promoting my interest in shooting, because I'm fully aware that "most" people don't share my views, and I totally understand their position, because as much as I love to shoot, and can justify it to myself, I still abhor "fox hunting", and alike !


So I guess I'm a hypocrite too, it just depends on where you draw your particular line !!!!



Mark.
 

Brithunter

Well-Known Member
OK let's face it in reality Si it's probably got nowt to do with the Fox. They didn't like you really all along and now they have an "excuse" to show it. Notice they gang together.

Now it could have been your dress (i.e clothes) hair, car just something. Perhaps your just better at the job than them.. I found this sort of thing when working in a few places. They had a little click and along comes a new guy. If you do the job and don't have to run to them asking things you should already know they feel threatened as in reality they ain't very good at the job.

So first thing they can latch onto they do. Petty little bawstewards mostly and always act in a group.
 

Si

Well-Known Member
OK let's face it in reality Si it's probably got nowt to do with the Fox. They didn't like you really all along and now they have an "excuse" to show it. Notice they gang together.

Now it could have been your dress (i.e clothes) hair, car just something. Perhaps your just better at the job than them.. I found this sort of thing when working in a few places. They had a little click and along comes a new guy. If you do the job and don't have to run to them asking things you should already know they feel threatened as in reality they ain't very good at the job.

So first thing they can latch onto they do. Petty little bawstewards mostly and always act in a group.
No it's not that, or at least I don't think it is, we all seem to get along ok... it's more micky taking than anything else. It's not like ganging up or bullying or anything like that. Just the odd comment.
 

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