This is OUTRAGEOUS opinions very appreciated

jon2

Well-Known Member
Dear all

This sorry tale (in my opinion) is regarding how much a DMQ Level 2 Witness has just charged a friend of mine for "assessing" him for his level 2.

I will try and make this as succint as possibe.

Basically my friend had phone contact with the assessor and email corespondance and a price of the following was agreed.

£125 for 2 outings per day and £75 per day for him carrying out the assessment.

My friend turns up and shoots over all 9 Fallow deer. One buck and the rest does.

On monday morning just gone, my friend and the assessor successfully get onto a buck. The assesor tells my friend to shoot it. The shot is good and the buck goes down. Upon approahing the animal the assessor says "oh it's the white one it's the white one! That was the white one I was saving for someone to come up and shoot from Cheshire". It is a nice buck. Not medal class but with fair palmation and a very nice representation - all white.

At the end of the 2 days, my friend has shot 9 deer in total so it comes to settle up time. He talleys it all up and says "ok that all in comes to £900".

He then proceeds to breakdown the costs:-

It appears that does are £40 per animal and "cull bucks" £75 per animal.

He says "but I will have to charge you £180 for the white fallow". Remember the assessor told him to shoot it and the price was never mentioned. My friend thought it would be charged as a cull buck as it was a mistake the assessor had made.

My firend came away feeling pretty sick and rang me to ask if I thought it was fair.

Furthermore the assessor has said he is not yet comepetent on the gralloch and has told him that it would be a good idea to come back in February to improve his competency on the gralloch!!! What a bastard is what I say. Also he has not filled in any of the portfolio. Not about his rifle handling skills or whether his knife was sharp or wearing gloves etc etc the portolio is blank.

My fallow average out at 34 - 37 kg's per animal dressed out so I make that at £2.20 a key £736 in value down the game dealers.

My friend said to me "is that the going rate" and although he felt a bit sick didn't necessarily think that e had been wronged.

The assessor has made over £1600 in two days. I say that is outrageous. What I am looking for is everyones opinions on this.

Look forward to your responses.

Many thanks
 

Rangefinder

Well-Known Member
Jon

Caveat Emptor

Let the buyer beware.

Get your friend to talk to DMQ. Sorry to hear 'bout your friend.
 

The Mole

Well-Known Member
If this character is an Accredited Witness and all you say is true, he is badly out of order. Your friend should contact the Assessment Centre responsible and give them the full story. It would do no harm to copy correspondence to DMQ Ltd as well.

If he's a Credible Witness that makes him less 'official' - but it's still worth registering the concern. The more people who report the cowboys, the more likely some action will be taken.

Also worth contacting the UK Association of Professional Deer Managers (see their website at www.ukapdm.org) to see if he's a member - they might have some concerns over quality control.
 

Dickie

Well-Known Member
Jon
Sorry about your friend sounds well ripped off.
How about he comes on this site and names and shames to prevent others getting treated the same.
Cheers
Dickie
 

buck52

Well-Known Member
Report him to DMQ, BASC or whoever the arsehole belongs to.
Name the bastard on here and every other site, because that is the only way people like him are going to be stopped.

Your mate should have paid him £650 as agreed (£125 per day x 2 + 2 X £75.00) and insisted he fill out his Individual cull records.
If he does not report him then he needs his arse kicking
 

shootingduckdog

Well-Known Member
witness

I am sure your friend has been done. I think I have just got my DSC2, the assessor says he has passed it as approved to the verifier. It cost me £60 per stalk and no extra for the witnessing. I sent in a portfolio that was complimentarily received, thanks to the witnesses guidance.
If your mate gralloched 9 deer then the witness has done him no favours if he hasnt straightened him out by the last one. I understand that of the 3 ICRs only one has to be perfect in each element, although its obviously much better if all are.
Finally, if none of the paperwork has been done then your friend hasnt achieved anything as far as I can see.
He could get 2 stalks with a competent stalker, ie a DSC2 man. I am sure guys on here would help, I would if in right area.
My experience of DSC2 has been very positive.
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
It appears that does are £40 per animal and "cull bucks" £75 per animal.
Hmm! This either "appeared" surely when the whole session was being agreed that animals shot would be charged OR it "appeared" after the animals were shot.

Did your friend not ask a direct question before booking of "How much per beast if I kill?" Or at the very latest BEFORE he pulled the trigger?

If he was told that all he would pay would be the stalk and the assessment fee then I would do this:

I would "name and shame" and drop the guy in the sh1t to the taxman. How many outings does the guy do? Hmm! The taxman may very well find that informatuon interesting.

That really is quite disgraceful.

I would refuse to pay. And invite the guy to see him in Court for the extra. And a reminder that what ends up in the "public domain" will end up with the taxman. An agreed price - if your friend's version is 110% correct - is an agreed price.

As you say this is all good meat and drink to those who think that this whole DMQ is just a way to make money. However I find it unusual that no mention of any agreement was made of any cost per animal killed beforehand.

On the other side of the argument:

Either there was no cost per animal killed mentioned or there was. I can't see this factor having not been set down clear to start with. Surely nobody sets out on a stalk without the making it crystal clear BEFORE if the cost of the stalk includes or does not include the cost of any beast killed?

If he was told that there would be a cost additional per animal killed then he has not a moral case. Except maybe the white buck. As there was no "extra fee" mentioned before it was taken then he is justified in offering only the £75.

As the friend was taking "Level 2" surely he can't be that much a "greenhorn"?
 

bambislayer

Well-Known Member
Name and Shame

Report him to the assessment centre.

As an AW , this behaviour relly ****es me off!

I don't see anything wrong with being re-imbursed for expenses but with this type of behaviour the present system ain't working.
 

Pete E

Well-Known Member
bambislayer said:
Name and Shame

Report him to the assessment centre.

As an AW , this behaviour relly ****es me off!

I don't see anything wrong with being re-imbursed for expenses but with this type of behaviour the present system ain't working.
Completely agree!

Name and shame the guy on here as others have said...
 

Shootingman

New Member
Jon, I had a similar experience ( not that amount of money involved though) approx 2yrs ago, sounds like the same guy, what part of the country does he come from.
 

Hornet

Well-Known Member
HORNET

YE SOUNDS LIKE THE MAN IS A TOTAL CHARLATON, NAME AND SHAME THE SOD, SHAME WE HAVE PEOPLE LIKE THAT AROUND BUT THATS LIFE IM AFRAID :mad: SHAMEFULL . HORNET
 

jingzy

Account Suspended
The only thing that is not clear here is what the agreement was on the price of each animal shot. The only people that will know this is the stalker and the client.

That aside, the subject of being charged £75 a day for the assessments is a joke, he should only charge for expenses unless he is self employed and that is his daily rate. But he has already charged for that as it should be in the price of the stalking (£125). Your friend has paid for a service that he has not received, he was being assessed and he never had anything filled out. He should even consider the small claims court.

He SHOULD contact the assessor that he is going through (not the credible witness or the accredited witness). He should then contact the Assessment centre that he applied through and also DMQ. Lastly he SHOULD name and shame him wherever he can.

This is what gives good AW's a bad name, and this is exactly the problem that these closed shop AW's have got away with for years. This is where DMQ should be filtering them out and discarding them.

There is also the so called issue of not teaching as they go along. If your friend was that bad, the witness should have said after the first cull, then told him that he would not be assessing him from that point. Then he should have taught him as he was being paid anyway. The stalker is a disgrace to DSC 2.

It would also help to get the BASC's view on this as I believe that they are the ones that administer DMQ 2 (MARFORD MILL houses both DMQ and BASC)
 

Monkey Spanker

Well-Known Member
I would agree with all of the above ie. report,name & shame etc..
However, I have a few nagging doubts.
Why on earth did he shoot 9 animals?? :eek: Surely a practise one followed by three assessed would be more than enough?
9 animals in two days is a lot, especially if they were all Fallow. Was this a DSC 2 in 2 days in an enclosed area by any chance? If it was, I suspect the opinions will differ somewhat.
That said though, that is an outrageous amount of money. As with anything in life these days, it is important to clarify everything to the last detail beforehand especially when it comes to money! Get it in balck and white if possible. I'm sure the threat of the small claims court might sort out a slight refund - especially if he is avoiding Mr Taxman!! :lol:
 

hairybiker

Well-Known Member
Sounds pretty much out of order to me - funny enough, I am looking to do the remaining 2 ICR's for my DSC2 and someone I have been given details of (fallow again, funny enough) has given me the same prices. Needless to say, I won't be using his 'services'.
I don't know for sure where this guy is based but I would assume it is somewhere in the Scottish borders based upon who gave me the contact details.
Name and shame I say :lol:
 
D

Davie

Guest
Sad that people do not have or know the full details before they go stalking. Also with the brake down the stalker did to justify his actions with regards extra cost would have met with no Fecking chance pal and if my portfolio had not been fill out i certainly would not have given him money .In what other walk of life would you hand over an agreed amount of of money for a job done when it is still to be done .
I would ask for all the moneys back that your friend is owed the DMQ moneys and the white buck money. If not its trading standards and for 18 even a small claim.
But until the chaps that do this are exposed they will be at this very minute ripping some one else off.
 

hairybiker

Well-Known Member
Further to my earlier reply, just found out where the pricing was for that I was given and it was Annandale Estate - not the same place by any chance?
 

jon2

Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone for your comments.

I was certain this was not good and proper but just wanted the view of others which I now have.

My friend didn't want me to name the guy but after sleeping on it (on not initially as I was so angry) I feel that it is important that he is named.

This guy is called Albert Clayton Robertson and goes by the christian name of Bertie. He operates on Lord Annandale's Estate near to Moffat.

My firend says he wants to just write it off as a bad experience (I told him to stop the cheque and re-negotiate a fair price).
 

fallowm oor

Well-Known Member
Guys, i have stalked with Bertie and his predisesor Peter on this estate for several years now. They have always let me know the price of animals to be hunted on arrival and i have never had any problems with either of them. Indeed they have both gone out of there way to help me in the past. Can i sugest your friend talks to Bert about how he feels as i have always found him very approachable and friendly. I cant understand why the white buck wasnt identified before the shot was taken though? they do stand out like sore thumbs. Im not trying to judge either way hear, just giving my honest opinion on past experience of the stalker involved.
 

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