This should help with BASC questions.

On a more serious note I dont see any other organisation subjecting themselves to questions on here.
Ive been a member of BASC for some time and have joined other organisations running concurrently with my BASC membership to see how they fair (NGO, BDS)
If its just insurance you're after then the NGO is the obvious route to take but that really is pretty much all you get.
I do find the BDS quite good, especially the North west branch.
However, BASC is the way forward for the foreseeable future. No other organisation, representing the shooting community, has the weight of influence that BASC have, in my opinion.
With regard to training and access to FC land etc as has been stated by Christopher BASC dont influence FC policies and, now that those policies are in place, its highly unlikely that the requirements for proof of competence are going to be removed/reduced, in fact, I believe we will see a continued emphasis on producing peer led written confirmation of the high standard the vast majority of stalkers are already capable of showing.
I think its inappropriate to compare a rabbit to a deer, I'd like to think we all have a high regard for all animals we shoot, whether its a rat or deer no one wants to see an animal suffer through our actions.

Get real here, if the Gov want to do something they'll do it, BASC or no one else will stop them,proved with the Handgun ban,oK they'll have a bit of a chat, and BASC and all the others will lap it up, meetings in London, Nice hotels and Scran,all on the Expenses,Do you honestly think the GoV listen,they just go through the Motions,and do what they want

As for comparing Deer, Rabbits and Rats, i do, with all Quarry,but no ones on an earner training me to shoot and paunch Rabbits and Rats,but if done humanely, point me out the difference ????????

Bernie
 
I havent said BASC or anyone else will stop them, I said BASC dont influence them.
Its my view that we will end up with a competence test/training certificate for the shooting of anything in the not too distant future, similar to Germany.
Oh, and if you're going to paunch a rat can I watch from behind my bino's?
 
I havent said BASC or anyone else will stop them, I said BASC dont influence them.
Its my view that we will end up with a competence test/training certificate for the shooting of anything in the not too distant future, similar to Germany.
Oh, and if you're going to paunch a rat can I watch from behind my bino's?

With BASC leading the Charge ;)

Bernie
 
I don't really know Bernie, but... now that you mention it... those that make the rules probably just hadn't got round to it yet. Mind you...Now that it's getting pointed out.... I guess it's only a question of time.
The wheels are probably in motion as we speak,surely members with DMQ2 will be awarded FREE the certificate in bunny preparation:)
 
I hope not! BASC are too expensive in the training department. Basc should tender to government to take over the administration of the gun licensing system and introduce a countrywide shooting competency certificate sponsored by lottery funding and subsidised to the tune of the savings made from having the police do it.
 
So many points, so little time.

First the point about the forum. I considered it the last time our website went through a major revamp, we had the ability to launch one but I wasn't convinced. This forum does an excellent job for deer stalking, the wildfowling forum does the same for fowling and pigeon watch must be the largest shooting forum on the UK web with sections for everything - that's not to mention two airgun boards amd other forums. I couldn't see what we could add to that and I don't want to run a quiet forum. But I take forums very seriously, that's why BASC enagages on virtually all of them - we should be accountable, even to the anonymous. I find forums an excellent place to explain what BASC does and correct any misconceptions. It also provides good feedback on what's bothering the shooting world.

Why is DSC1 required on Arran? I'm not at the office so can't get you the definitive answer but I suspect it's to do with the fact that you stalk alone and it may be a condition of the lease. I'll find out and let you know.

Yes, Bernie, the government has the power to do what it wants to whom it wants. but there remains a desire in all governments to govern well. It may not be the dominant feeling at a particular time and the handgun ban first introduced by a Tory Home Secretary - Michael Howard, himself a game shooter - just before an election - is a prime example. The only way to work to persuade them that what they want to do is mistaken or wrong is to talk to them, and the stronger the relationship the more chance they'll listen. Whitehaven and the governmnet's reaction is a good example. As for the conditions in London. I sleep in a club - a sort of boy's place to crash which is cheaper than an hotel. My last room on a top storey had damp running down the walls of the built-in cupboard. The food? I had cereal for breakfast, pasta for lunch and a Virgin train's sandwich for supper - on expenses - yes - I couldn't afford to pay for weekly travel, accommodation and food out of my salary. And while we're on the subject I drive a BASC owned pick-up - partly to keep the dog (a Chesi) in the back, partly for the small tax-advantage and mainly because I can fit all my shooting and fishing gear in. It's the second company car I've had over a ten year period at BASC. I'm not complaining about the system - any membership organisation should watch how it spends members money - it's perfectly adequate but it's far less than in previous jobs I've done so please don't get the idea that anyone works at BASC for the expenses, food and cars!

Christopher
 
To say BASC does not make the FC rules is a bit rich when basc run courses for profit, are you willing to state that basc had no input into the drawing up of FC leases or the content in them. Remember before replyin that there was no requirment for a cert of compitence before basc and the bds invented them. The EU meat hygiene rules did not cover game, only farmed animals slaughted at approved premises and was a way of tracing meat and its storage through the entire food chain. The greatest litergation country in the world the USA does not require you to have any certs as strict as ours to hunt on public land.
 
So many points, so little time.

First the point about the forum. I considered it the last time our website went through a major revamp, we had the ability to launch one but I wasn't convinced. This forum does an excellent job for deer stalking, the wildfowling forum does the same for fowling and pigeon watch must be the largest shooting forum on the UK web with sections for everything - that's not to mention two airgun boards amd other forums. I couldn't see what we could add to that and I don't want to run a quiet forum. But I take forums very seriously, that's why BASC enagages on virtually all of them - we should be accountable, even to the anonymous. I find forums an excellent place to explain what BASC does and correct any misconceptions. It also provides good feedback on what's bothering the shooting world.

Why is DSC1 required on Arran? I'm not at the office so can't get you the definitive answer but I suspect it's to do with the fact that you stalk alone and it may be a condition of the lease. I'll find out and let you know.

Yes, Bernie, the government has the power to do what it wants to whom it wants. but there remains a desire in all governments to govern well. It may not be the dominant feeling at a particular time and the handgun ban first introduced by a Tory Home Secretary - Michael Howard, himself a game shooter - just before an election - is a prime example. The only way to work to persuade them that what they want to do is mistaken or wrong is to talk to them, and the stronger the relationship the more chance they'll listen. Whitehaven and the governmnet's reaction is a good example. As for the conditions in London. I sleep in a club - a sort of boy's place to crash which is cheaper than an hotel. My last room on a top storey had damp running down the walls of the built-in cupboard. The food? I had cereal for breakfast, pasta for lunch and a Virgin train's sandwich for supper - on expenses - yes - I couldn't afford to pay for weekly travel, accommodation and food out of my salary. And while we're on the subject I drive a BASC owned pick-up - partly to keep the dog (a Chesi) in the back, partly for the small tax-advantage and mainly because I can fit all my shooting and fishing gear in. It's the second company car I've had over a ten year period at BASC. I'm not complaining about the system - any membership organisation should watch how it spends members money - it's perfectly adequate but it's far less than in previous jobs I've done so please don't get the idea that anyone works at BASC for the expenses, food and cars!

Christopher

So I take it that B.A.S.C has no intentions of providing a forum for its membership and its officers will therefore only rely on other forum providers to glean the information from its membership and how to respond to their wishes????

Do you really think thats adequate in todays standards?
Tell me again what was this new comunication centre built for?
 
As BASC are a commercial company, making money from stalkers should they not be a trade member? :D

Chris you have still not answered why BASC do not provide local low cost training for its members but are happy to charge 2600% more than a BDS branch does?
 
Yes, we do not make the FC rules we don't have any input into drawing up their leases or the content in them. BASC did not invent a certificate of competence, the continentals did. I was working for BASC when the hygiene rules were introduced for game - that was part of a European drive for food quality BASC played no role in introducing it - beyond helping people comply. Through our membership of the European hunter's association we did lobby to ensure that the regs were as good as possible. It's different in the States. Most game is used by the hunter and not sold to the public. Where there has been game put into public assistance programmes and there have been doubts about the safety of the game State governments have just chucked it away and stopped putting game and venison into the programmes.

Christopher
 
So I take it that B.A.S.C has no intentions of providing a forum for its membership and its officers will therefore only rely on other forum providers to glean the information from its membership and how to respond to their wishes????

Do you really think thats adequate in todays standards?
Tell me again what was this new comunication centre built for?

Mannlicher - this exchange has been the first time there has been any request for a BASC forum and frankly it's not enough - as yet - to persuade me that such a forum would make a contribution beyond the existing forums. Should there be evidence of sufficient demand I'll reconsider. The new communciation centre was built to provide the facilities for film and voice communications of the highest standard. You saw its impact in the hours following Whitehaven

Christopher
 
The problem you have Now Christopher is, People now have Access to the internet,so there aint any secrets,the internet can bring down organisations and Governments, as can be seen in the middle east,get your act together, stop ripping folk off or in a few years you'll be on the dole too ;)

Bernie
 
As BASC are a commercial company, making money from stalkers should they not be a trade member? :D

Chris you have still not answered why BASC do not provide local low cost training for its members but are happy to charge 2600% more than a BDS branch does?

Sweep, good question - I really don't know - but I'll find out and let you know. I would only say that if you can get local courses for £10 and we're charging £250 for a national course I'm amazed that anyone takes a BASC course - and they tend to be oversubscribed!

Christopher
 
Mannlicher - this exchange has been the first time there has been any request for a BASC forum and frankly it's not enough - as yet - to persuade me that such a forum would make a contribution beyond the existing forums. Should there be evidence of sufficient demand I'll reconsider. The new communciation centre was built to provide the facilities for film and voice communications of the highest standard. You saw its impact in the hours following Whitehaven

Christopher

Not True Christopher we have been making such representation with David on here for some time now obviously some lack of communication, if B.A.S.C had such a forum such concerns would have been picked up earlier. emmmmm
 
The problem you have Now Christopher is, People now have Access to the internet,so there aint any secrets,the internet can bring down organisations and Governments, as can be seen in the middle east,get your act together, stop ripping folk off or in a few years you'll be on the dole too ;)

Bernie

Bernie, been there before. I'm not hiding any secrets - to the contrary I'm on here to be open. Why would I have come on if I wanted to hide things? I'm not ripping people off and I'm aware of the power of the internet - I've used it to influence government and MPs through the BASC website and members of the Stalking Directory gave that initiative enormous and useful support.

I don't make allegations without proof - and neither should anyone here.

Christopher
 
Not True Christopher we have been making such representation with David on here for some time now obviously some lack of communication, if B.A.S.C had such a forum such concerns would have been picked up earlier. emmmmm

I've been following this forum for some time and not picked that up - must have missed it. What I have to be sure of is that the forum will be sufficiently used to justify the staff tiime in moderating it. I'm not there yet, and I'm certainly not making a snap decision as a result of a forum echange. If you're serious, take it up with me by email - christopher.graffius@basc.org.uk - and if anyone else on the forum supports the idea please email me too. Thanks

Chruistopher
 
If BASC is so against manditory training how many times and forces has BASC challenged over FEO's insistance that to be granted a Deer calibre Rifle you must have DSC1 or to have a mentoring condition removed you must have dsc2?
 
I don't have that information at my fingertips and will not be able to consult the firearms team until tomorrow morning. I can tell you that in my case there was no such insistence and I would expect our firearms team to insist on FEO's following the national guidance (heavily influenced and partially written by BASC) which contains no such requirement.

Christopher
 
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