I thought this might be a possibility, but not in 5 different mags perhaps. The only common factor is the user.
TIKKA T3 .223 Magazine Worn Out after less 200 rounds
- Thread starter royr
- Start date
I thought this might be a possibility, but not in 5 different mags perhaps. The only common factor is the user.
Looks to me like you’ve been forcing the round through the lips from above about 2-3mm back from where they end. Ie. Rather than placing the round ahead of the lips, depressing the follower with the base of the round and sliding it under the lips, it looks like you’re loading straight down from above, more as you would a floor plate mag.
i may be wrong, but that looks like the wear pattern i’ve seen on two others who turned out (entirely subconsciously) to be loading this way. As soon as they changed the way they loaded, problem went away.
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I did think about that after I posted.
Mungo's theory should also be considered, wear taking place when the round enters the mag, rather than when exiting.
Good Morning Gents,
Have appreciated and viewed your thoughts and comments.
I would like to add here that with my aging CZ527 metal magazine never had any issues or problems.
However, the possibility of wearing the guide rails when loading the cartridge is now pretty slim, because I had thought this might be a possibility with the first magazine, so for all the replacement magazines I have deliberately pushed the cartridge down onto the tensioner thus avoiding the front of the rail-lips where the wear has been occurring. So I'm not convinced of this initial loading of the magazine is causing the wear. I still believe it is the polymer which is at fault.
Testing:- I've fully loaded the magazine and used a pencil to push each cartridge slowly forward and I'm reasonably certain I can see small polymer dust-shavings with a magnifying glass after I've ejected all 6. The inside sharpness of the case head, as the nose inclines, appears to be the cause.
When I first purchased the T3, I used factory ammo, Sako, Winchester B.Tips, Norma. For the last year I've taken to reloading and favour Lapua cases. Therefore the wear problem does not suggest it is cartridge case specific. Still seems the problem is with the polymer, and I'm not the only person having these magazine problems. There are now many instances of this .223 T3 magazine failure around the globe.
I think earlier in this thread I mentioned that my colleague, doing the same vermin control on the Game Shoot, subsequently purchased a T3X Super Varmint Stainless 4 months later, loves the rifle, but after about 300 rounds he had a similar T3 magazine problem which caused him to miss 2 additional fox cubs, because of twice mis-feeding. He has not gone the same route as myself of sending the faulty magazine back to GMK for replacement, stating they are a pile of sh*t and would never use them again. He purchased the 10-Round Riflemags aluminium magazine and has no problems with over 1000 rounds fired.
Gents, thank you all for your constructive comments.
Regards
Roy
Have appreciated and viewed your thoughts and comments.
I would like to add here that with my aging CZ527 metal magazine never had any issues or problems.
However, the possibility of wearing the guide rails when loading the cartridge is now pretty slim, because I had thought this might be a possibility with the first magazine, so for all the replacement magazines I have deliberately pushed the cartridge down onto the tensioner thus avoiding the front of the rail-lips where the wear has been occurring. So I'm not convinced of this initial loading of the magazine is causing the wear. I still believe it is the polymer which is at fault.
Testing:- I've fully loaded the magazine and used a pencil to push each cartridge slowly forward and I'm reasonably certain I can see small polymer dust-shavings with a magnifying glass after I've ejected all 6. The inside sharpness of the case head, as the nose inclines, appears to be the cause.
When I first purchased the T3, I used factory ammo, Sako, Winchester B.Tips, Norma. For the last year I've taken to reloading and favour Lapua cases. Therefore the wear problem does not suggest it is cartridge case specific. Still seems the problem is with the polymer, and I'm not the only person having these magazine problems. There are now many instances of this .223 T3 magazine failure around the globe.
I think earlier in this thread I mentioned that my colleague, doing the same vermin control on the Game Shoot, subsequently purchased a T3X Super Varmint Stainless 4 months later, loves the rifle, but after about 300 rounds he had a similar T3 magazine problem which caused him to miss 2 additional fox cubs, because of twice mis-feeding. He has not gone the same route as myself of sending the faulty magazine back to GMK for replacement, stating they are a pile of sh*t and would never use them again. He purchased the 10-Round Riflemags aluminium magazine and has no problems with over 1000 rounds fired.
Gents, thank you all for your constructive comments.
Regards
Roy
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Very diplomatic!
I’ve never seen this happen but I’ve just had a thought, mine and my friends t3s have all been.243 and larger, whereas several of those with faulty mags have been in .223. Is this a problem due to the specific shape and size of a .223 round causing them to rub the front of the msg more than other calibers?
Afternoon Gents,
This afternoon I've been checking the HEADS of the different brands of .223 cartridge cases that I have here. All the rear outside lips of the head are quite rounded and smooth, these do not catch the polymer case or snag the skin on my fingers, it just glides over. Filling the magazine with ammo, so causing this lip-wear is a less likely scenario.
Now, scrutinizing the inside lip of the head, where the extraction groove resides, is where the head is a quite sharp, it certainly will shave the polymer given a certain angle, and definitely snags my finger; it reminded me of a metal lathe cutting tool.
So I still believe the problem is mainly a fault of the polymer being not hard enough to withstand damage and from a variety of .223 brass cases. A manufacturing problem?
Maybe as Minikeeper suggests it could be .223 specific?
Thanks again for your input Chaps.
Regards
Roy
This afternoon I've been checking the HEADS of the different brands of .223 cartridge cases that I have here. All the rear outside lips of the head are quite rounded and smooth, these do not catch the polymer case or snag the skin on my fingers, it just glides over. Filling the magazine with ammo, so causing this lip-wear is a less likely scenario.
Now, scrutinizing the inside lip of the head, where the extraction groove resides, is where the head is a quite sharp, it certainly will shave the polymer given a certain angle, and definitely snags my finger; it reminded me of a metal lathe cutting tool.
So I still believe the problem is mainly a fault of the polymer being not hard enough to withstand damage and from a variety of .223 brass cases. A manufacturing problem?
Maybe as Minikeeper suggests it could be .223 specific?
Thanks again for your input Chaps.
Regards
Roy
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Thinking about this, and following on from points made by others: at one point I had a T3 in .243 and in .222.
I remember that the .222 rounds poked up out of the mag at a much steeper angle. I never had feeding problems, but can now easily visualise the ‘shaving’ that royr describes.
So: it may be that the polymer is perfectly fit for purpose when used with longer rounds that don’t scrape past at a steep angle, but fails on shorter rounds.
A product of the retro-fitting they did to make the T3 a one size fits all action, maybe.
I remember that the .222 rounds poked up out of the mag at a much steeper angle. I never had feeding problems, but can now easily visualise the ‘shaving’ that royr describes.
So: it may be that the polymer is perfectly fit for purpose when used with longer rounds that don’t scrape past at a steep angle, but fails on shorter rounds.
A product of the retro-fitting they did to make the T3 a one size fits all action, maybe.
Hello Mungo,
Think you may have the answer there. Yes, thinking back, the T3 magazine was indeed designed for a "One Size Fits All" situation. The magazine external dimensions remained the same, it was just the size of the internal block which defined what calibre it would be partnered too! This "Universal" magazine was never specifically designed for the smaller shorter round of .223 calibre, maybe that's why it don't work too well?
Other longer case calibres using T3 magazines may be less susceptible to causing this lip-wear?
Thanks Mungo, that's the most plausible answer I've heard; it fits 99% of the facts.
Regards
Roy
Think you may have the answer there. Yes, thinking back, the T3 magazine was indeed designed for a "One Size Fits All" situation. The magazine external dimensions remained the same, it was just the size of the internal block which defined what calibre it would be partnered too! This "Universal" magazine was never specifically designed for the smaller shorter round of .223 calibre, maybe that's why it don't work too well?
Other longer case calibres using T3 magazines may be less susceptible to causing this lip-wear?
Thanks Mungo, that's the most plausible answer I've heard; it fits 99% of the facts.
Regards
Roy
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MountainStalker2
Well-Known Member
The problem is calibre specific to .223 mostly. worst if you use Lapua brass. Lapua cases chew the plastic lips out as the bolt drives them forward. Tikka here (Australia) replace the original mags with steel lipped factory versions for a small fee. Beretta are well aware of the issue globally, It's been going on for almost 10 years now!
Home Loader
Well-Known Member
For what reason is Lapua brass the worst? Ive never found it to have a greater abrasive quality than other makes?
8x57
Distinguished Member
I wonder if this is why Sako decided to go with steel magazine lips rather than just polymer on the A7 which you could say is to all intents and purposes a hybrid Sako/Tikka?
Hello Mountainstalker,
Brilliant, I think the definitive information you've just given here, concludes my and other's quest for an answer, but I'm dismayed this has been known about for 10 years!!!
I'm now really disappointed with Tikka and GMK for not informing their buying customers in the UK of this known global problem with the T3 .223 calibre magazine. You inform us that Tikka /Beretta have acknowledged this problem and have even produced a modified T3 magazine to resolve the "lip wear" issue. So, why I ask, was there not a general "recall" of these T3 magazines, as sometimes happens in the motor or electrical appliance industry?
Just 18 months ago, when my 1st magazine failed, GMK initially told me they were not aware of any T3 problems, then after I searched numerous "shooting" forums and showed them the evidence of my findings, they then told me that after making their own inquires, there was indeed a LOW INCIDENT rate of T3 magazine failures; either they were being economical with the truth or it was known, IMHO, but no-one wanted this bad news to be made public? Well it is in the UK public domain now!
Mountainstalker, I'll convey your information to my contact at GMK. Bill Moore, and push hard for him to acquire a replacement .223 Beretta Modified T3 magazine (with metal lips) - under warranty of course, because the current ones I've been supplied with are, as I describe, "not fit for purpose".
These Forums are great places for info'.
Thanks Gents,
Regards
Roy
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