Briarquest
Well-Known Member
Edited
Last edited:
Training to track
- Thread starter Briarquest
- Start date
Jagare
Well-Known Member
I don't think it is so different to train a dog to track deer than the type of training you do with your dogs. You have the advantage of knowing what a trained dog is capable of.
I look at it like training any other gun dog in that you are just honeing what comes naturally to a dog. My self i think its quite easy to get a dog to a good standard to track deer. Many stalkers think long and hard about the dog they want for deer. They pay a lot of money for a pup and then never get the full potential that the dog is capable of by a bit of simply training. But then this seems to affect many branchs of the gundog world.
Its also about training your self to read what the dog is doing and trust the dog.
Nothing wrong with your dog attacking the shooter who has messed up a shot. It will teach them to learn to shoot better
I look at it like training any other gun dog in that you are just honeing what comes naturally to a dog. My self i think its quite easy to get a dog to a good standard to track deer. Many stalkers think long and hard about the dog they want for deer. They pay a lot of money for a pup and then never get the full potential that the dog is capable of by a bit of simply training. But then this seems to affect many branchs of the gundog world.
Its also about training your self to read what the dog is doing and trust the dog.
Nothing wrong with your dog attacking the shooter who has messed up a shot. It will teach them to learn to shoot better
devilishdave
Well-Known Member
Deer Dogs
Sounds like interesting stuff,I live in North Yokshire and could sort you ot with the skin and blood but I am away with work until late june. If you dont have any joy before then give me a shout. I add salt to the blood to stop it clotting.
Dave
Sounds like interesting stuff,I live in North Yokshire and could sort you ot with the skin and blood but I am away with work until late june. If you dont have any joy before then give me a shout. I add salt to the blood to stop it clotting.
Dave
devilishdave
Well-Known Member
Deer Dogs
Dbl post
Dbl post
Briarquest said:
Ian
my own thoughts on this is
if you teach your dog to track pheasants, it will track pheasant scent
if you teach it to track rabbits,it will track rabbit scent
if you teach it to track sheep ,it will track sheep scent
so if you want your dog to track deer then train it on deer to strat with and if you want it to track a specific deer like a wounded one then train it for that situation , so the dog has a chance to assoiciate the circumstances with the findings in it's nose
other wise you could be following the freshest scent or strongest scent you come across which may not be the deer you are after
ie wounded deer, very little blood could be split from the herd and dog follows the herd instead or even takes fancy to a pheasant or fox that has just crossed infront of you
how long and how far from the orignal trail could that take you before you realised and then how would you know where the orignal trail was if you had not marked it at crucial points along the way or if it is now dark , as the land or the forrest looks all the same in the torch light
just a few things i looked at when i started off that hav helped me so far and i am still learning about it
ATB
stone
doghound
Well-Known Member
Briarquest
I am intersted in your take on scent training as I believe that a tracking dog is probably capable of a lot more than we ask of it. When you get started please post your expeeriences.
I have a Teckel who tracks the fairly straight forward faultlessly, anything up to about 12 hours starting a the point of shot.
Of late I have been tracking in a deer park to add more and more distraction also dropping the dog on the trail about half way along and seeing how long it takes her to work out she is tracking a heel line and turning around and going back along the trail. This has taken a couple of months of work to get this right. but they do work out that a trail is getting older as they go down it and reverse direction. (Something I learnt from Foxhound kennels).
Its hard to tap into the Police/Miliary guys for info, though I bought a Lintran trailer from Lancashire Police Dog Training centre and had a fascinating day looking round and asking questions when I collected it. Some of the stuff they were doing was way ahead of basic tracking.
Keep us posted on your progress.
I am intersted in your take on scent training as I believe that a tracking dog is probably capable of a lot more than we ask of it. When you get started please post your expeeriences.
I have a Teckel who tracks the fairly straight forward faultlessly, anything up to about 12 hours starting a the point of shot.
Of late I have been tracking in a deer park to add more and more distraction also dropping the dog on the trail about half way along and seeing how long it takes her to work out she is tracking a heel line and turning around and going back along the trail. This has taken a couple of months of work to get this right. but they do work out that a trail is getting older as they go down it and reverse direction. (Something I learnt from Foxhound kennels).
Its hard to tap into the Police/Miliary guys for info, though I bought a Lintran trailer from Lancashire Police Dog Training centre and had a fascinating day looking round and asking questions when I collected it. Some of the stuff they were doing was way ahead of basic tracking.
Keep us posted on your progress.
doghound
Well-Known Member
Briarquest
I am intersted in your take on scent training as I believe that a tracking dog is probably capable of a lot more than we ask of it. When you get started please post your expeeriences.
I have a Teckel who tracks the fairly straight forward faultlessly, anything up to about 12 hours starting a the point of shot.
Of late I have been tracking in a deer park to add more and more distraction also dropping the dog on the trail about half way along and seeing how long it takes her to work out she is tracking a heel line and turning around and going back along the trail. This has taken a couple of months of work to get this right. but they do work out that a trail is getting older as they go down it and reverse direction. (Something I learnt from Foxhound kennels).
Its hard to tap into the Police/Miliary guys for info, though I bought a Lintran trailer from Lancashire Police Dog Training centre and had a fascinating day looking round and asking questions when I collected it. Some of the stuff they were doing was way ahead of basic tracking.
Keep us posted on your progress.
I am intersted in your take on scent training as I believe that a tracking dog is probably capable of a lot more than we ask of it. When you get started please post your expeeriences.
I have a Teckel who tracks the fairly straight forward faultlessly, anything up to about 12 hours starting a the point of shot.
Of late I have been tracking in a deer park to add more and more distraction also dropping the dog on the trail about half way along and seeing how long it takes her to work out she is tracking a heel line and turning around and going back along the trail. This has taken a couple of months of work to get this right. but they do work out that a trail is getting older as they go down it and reverse direction. (Something I learnt from Foxhound kennels).
Its hard to tap into the Police/Miliary guys for info, though I bought a Lintran trailer from Lancashire Police Dog Training centre and had a fascinating day looking round and asking questions when I collected it. Some of the stuff they were doing was way ahead of basic tracking.
Keep us posted on your progress.
If anyone's interested Sparsholt College is running a Niels Sondergaard Dogs for Deer course on Thursday 30 April and Friday 1 May.
http://www.sparsholt.ac.uk/pages/newsview.aspx?idNews=80
Chris
http://www.sparsholt.ac.uk/pages/newsview.aspx?idNews=80
Chris
paintandpins
Well-Known Member
[Its hard to tap into the Police/Miliary guys for info]
No its not doghound just give me a bell [/quote]
Also to Ian, we import dried blood from Germany, it is quite a popular product but we've never used it.
No its not doghound just give me a bell
[/quote]Also to Ian, we import dried blood from Germany, it is quite a popular product but we've never used it.
Hi Ian
would be interested on a talk about methedology as it sounds quite interesting
not sure how different training really is to what i am used to but always one to try and learn new methods or improve mine where ever poss
just to give you a little insight to what i play about doing with my little girl sika
i got the OH to lay me a blood trail using as little blood as she dared
she used a 500 ml washing up liquid bottle which had a mixture of fallow blood diluted with about 30% tap water just to help make the blood run better
she layed a trail about 250-300 yards long using about 200-220 ml of blood
a certain points she made a few extra drops so that i could see i was on the right track
some i zoomed in on a couple of the blood spots that i could see i
there are 2 clips , i made a mistake and pressed the stop button so then carried on filming therefore 2 clips
as you can see from the clips there is very little voice activity from myself just a few to steady sika up at the start, as i want sika to work it out by herself
i myself was told of several key points along the trail but i was not present when the trail was laid so i had to trust sika aswell as look for signs myself
the trail was laid around 7:30 am on bank holiday monday
i set off on the trail at 7:40 am this morning being tuesday
so the trail was 24 hours old
points to look at on first clip is at 10 secs (starting point)i was shown this shortly after the trail was laid so i scrubbed it up a little to make sure of some decent scent to start off from
1 min 25secs (50-70 yards) we reached a fence and first real sign of any blood
3mins a marrow bone left on the trail, this was dropped there yesterday as the brother in-law took his dogs across the field and one of the dogs dropped it there as it picked up the blood scent and followed it for a while, so apart from the geese and brother in-law and his several dogs all going over the field there were also rabbits present and strong smell of fox
4 mins more blood to show we were on the right track
It was a damp morning so that did help
CLIP 1
Clip 2
this you will see towards the end of the trail sika is pulling very hard as she has air scented the skin that was left at the end of the trail so she had something to find
Remember this is not how every one does it or even the perfect tracking technique, this was just to give you an idea of what i put my dog through and of course to leave myself open for questions, debate and advice by those more and less experienced than my self
ATB
Stone
would be interested on a talk about methedology as it sounds quite interesting
not sure how different training really is to what i am used to but always one to try and learn new methods or improve mine where ever poss
just to give you a little insight to what i play about doing with my little girl sika
i got the OH to lay me a blood trail using as little blood as she dared
she used a 500 ml washing up liquid bottle which had a mixture of fallow blood diluted with about 30% tap water just to help make the blood run better
she layed a trail about 250-300 yards long using about 200-220 ml of blood
a certain points she made a few extra drops so that i could see i was on the right track
some i zoomed in on a couple of the blood spots that i could see i
there are 2 clips , i made a mistake and pressed the stop button so then carried on filming therefore 2 clips
as you can see from the clips there is very little voice activity from myself just a few to steady sika up at the start, as i want sika to work it out by herself
i myself was told of several key points along the trail but i was not present when the trail was laid so i had to trust sika aswell as look for signs myself
the trail was laid around 7:30 am on bank holiday monday
i set off on the trail at 7:40 am this morning being tuesday
so the trail was 24 hours old
points to look at on first clip is at 10 secs (starting point)i was shown this shortly after the trail was laid so i scrubbed it up a little to make sure of some decent scent to start off from
1 min 25secs (50-70 yards) we reached a fence and first real sign of any blood
3mins a marrow bone left on the trail, this was dropped there yesterday as the brother in-law took his dogs across the field and one of the dogs dropped it there as it picked up the blood scent and followed it for a while, so apart from the geese and brother in-law and his several dogs all going over the field there were also rabbits present and strong smell of fox
4 mins more blood to show we were on the right track
It was a damp morning so that did help
CLIP 1
Clip 2
this you will see towards the end of the trail sika is pulling very hard as she has air scented the skin that was left at the end of the trail so she had something to find
Remember this is not how every one does it or even the perfect tracking technique, this was just to give you an idea of what i put my dog through and of course to leave myself open for questions, debate and advice
by those more and less experienced than my selfATB
Stone
doghound
Well-Known Member
Briar
i have used the dried blood from paint and pins, real handy when you forget to defrost some real stuff.
I am coming to believe the actual scent does not matter as long as it is not too strong. I have had a week in the new forest with the kids. Took my teckel , playing hide and seek in the woods, i just let the dog find them, she found it easy even though they were wearing wellies.
Should not be surprised really, we hunt loose hounds in Sweden and they always track you back if they lose the hunted animal.
i have used the dried blood from paint and pins, real handy when you forget to defrost some real stuff.
I am coming to believe the actual scent does not matter as long as it is not too strong. I have had a week in the new forest with the kids. Took my teckel , playing hide and seek in the woods, i just let the dog find them, she found it easy even though they were wearing wellies.
Should not be surprised really, we hunt loose hounds in Sweden and they always track you back if they lose the hunted animal.
Jagare
Well-Known Member
Briarquest Slow down a bit. First get your self some hooves.Roe, fallow, Red its not important what type. and use these as a play thing for the dog. Once the dog enjoys playing with the hooves lay out a blood trail of 50 mtrs use plenty of blood and dragging ta hoof on a piece of string tie the hoof to a tree-bush at the end of the trail.
About 2 hours after you have laid said trail take the dog on a lead and sit hin about 5 mtrs from the start of the trail.
Go forward and look at the start of the trail as if you were investigateing the shot place. go back to the dog and put on the tracking collar/harness and tracking lead.
Take the dog forward and show him the start of the trail with gentle encouragment the dog should follow the trail. When the dog finds the hoof let him play with it for a little while and then take the hoof away and freeze the hoof for another day.
Once the dog has got the hang of the 50 mtr trails make themlonger with less blood and with a longer time between laying and tracking.
It takes time to train any dog don't rush it.
I've been training my Kopov since last Autumn . We are now up to 24 hour track and i'm useing very little blood and he will track for how ever long the trail is.
He has his first tracking field trial in 2 weeks.
About 2 hours after you have laid said trail take the dog on a lead and sit hin about 5 mtrs from the start of the trail.
Go forward and look at the start of the trail as if you were investigateing the shot place. go back to the dog and put on the tracking collar/harness and tracking lead.
Take the dog forward and show him the start of the trail with gentle encouragment the dog should follow the trail. When the dog finds the hoof let him play with it for a little while and then take the hoof away and freeze the hoof for another day.
Once the dog has got the hang of the 50 mtr trails make themlonger with less blood and with a longer time between laying and tracking.
It takes time to train any dog don't rush it.
I've been training my Kopov since last Autumn . We are now up to 24 hour track and i'm useing very little blood and he will track for how ever long the trail is.
He has his first tracking field trial in 2 weeks.
Jagare
Well-Known Member
Briarquest Slow down a bit. First get your self some hooves.Roe, fallow, Red its not important what type. and use these as a play thing for the dog. Once the dog enjoys playing with the hooves lay out a blood trail of 50 mtrs use plenty of blood and dragging ta hoof on a piece of string tie the hoof to a tree-bush at the end of the trail.
About 2 hours after you have laid said trail take the dog on a lead and sit hin about 5 mtrs from the start of the trail.
Go forward and look at the start of the trail as if you were investigateing the shot place. go back to the dog and put on the tracking collar/harness and tracking lead.
Take the dog forward and show him the start of the trail with gentle encouragment the dog should follow the trail. When the dog finds the hoof let him play with it for a little while and then take the hoof away and freeze the hoof for another day.
Once the dog has got the hang of the 50 mtr trails make themlonger with less blood and with a longer time between laying and tracking.
It takes time to train any dog don't rush it.
I've been training my Kopov since last Autumn . We are now up to 24 hour track and i'm useing very little blood and he will track for how ever long the trail is.
He has his first tracking field trial in 2 weeks.
About 2 hours after you have laid said trail take the dog on a lead and sit hin about 5 mtrs from the start of the trail.
Go forward and look at the start of the trail as if you were investigateing the shot place. go back to the dog and put on the tracking collar/harness and tracking lead.
Take the dog forward and show him the start of the trail with gentle encouragment the dog should follow the trail. When the dog finds the hoof let him play with it for a little while and then take the hoof away and freeze the hoof for another day.
Once the dog has got the hang of the 50 mtr trails make themlonger with less blood and with a longer time between laying and tracking.
It takes time to train any dog don't rush it.
I've been training my Kopov since last Autumn . We are now up to 24 hour track and i'm useing very little blood and he will track for how ever long the trail is.
He has his first tracking field trial in 2 weeks.
Very interesting.
Briarquest, I'm using a shutzhund trained German Shepherd for tracking.
She's a four year old brood bitch for Thames Valley police and they acquired her from Holland as a 2 year old. She's had 2 litters and every single pup as made a police dog.
After doing lots of research and trial and error I'm now starting to make progress but I'm afraid it's going to be a long haul.
I started laying a very short blood and food trail and slowly increased the distance. I'm now at the point where I now just lay food at the end of the trail, but I still keep the trail short, 70 to 80 yards maximum.
The scent shoe definitely helps, when I first started with her I was lightly burying inch dowel cubes soaked in blood and telling her to find, she went straight to them every time, even if I had laid 3 or 4, that's when I realized she was tracking my scent. All I do now is throw the blood soaked dowel into some grass or light cover, when she finds it she's rewarded with a ball ( she's been rewarded with food and balls?)
The problem I will have, and have experienced is something that stone commented on earlier, she will get side tracked by other scents, IE Pheasants and rabbits, she just loves to hunt.
Only time will tell how she ends up, although she has already found several deer I know deep down that she will never make a fantastic deer dog but I will persevere and get as much as I can out of her.
Ideally I would like a pup from her and start from scratch, then I think I would have a dog to equal most.
Briarquest, I'm using a shutzhund trained German Shepherd for tracking.
She's a four year old brood bitch for Thames Valley police and they acquired her from Holland as a 2 year old. She's had 2 litters and every single pup as made a police dog.
After doing lots of research and trial and error I'm now starting to make progress but I'm afraid it's going to be a long haul.
I started laying a very short blood and food trail and slowly increased the distance. I'm now at the point where I now just lay food at the end of the trail, but I still keep the trail short, 70 to 80 yards maximum.
The scent shoe definitely helps, when I first started with her I was lightly burying inch dowel cubes soaked in blood and telling her to find, she went straight to them every time, even if I had laid 3 or 4, that's when I realized she was tracking my scent. All I do now is throw the blood soaked dowel into some grass or light cover, when she finds it she's rewarded with a ball ( she's been rewarded with food and balls?)
The problem I will have, and have experienced is something that stone commented on earlier, she will get side tracked by other scents, IE Pheasants and rabbits, she just loves to hunt.
Only time will tell how she ends up, although she has already found several deer I know deep down that she will never make a fantastic deer dog but I will persevere and get as much as I can out of her.
Ideally I would like a pup from her and start from scratch, then I think I would have a dog to equal most.
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