Two Piece Cartridge Case Developments USA
- Thread starter lillico
- Start date
Soon as he quoted George Patton that the M1 Garand was "the greatest battle implement ever devised" I thought....KNOBHEAD...and stopped listening. So anything said after was lost to me. In fact I hoped that his electronic ear muffs might malfunction and deliver a fatal shock to his brain.
Just like Speer's aluminium cased pistol ammunition the concept is great if you fire and leave your empty cases laying on the ground. For the reloader you might also just as well do that same as the cases will be pretty much be unusable for reloading.
Just like Speer's aluminium cased pistol ammunition the concept is great if you fire and leave your empty cases laying on the ground. For the reloader you might also just as well do that same as the cases will be pretty much be unusable for reloading.
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Smellydog
Well-Known Member
I should imagine the real reason for it's development is profits. It will be cheaper to make material cost wise.
Yes there is a boost in pressure yield point but at the cost of barrel life. But it will be sold purely on its performance figures to get the masses to pay initial development costs.
Elmer Keith came up with a method to extend 50 Browning barrel life by having a flash tube from the primer to the base of the bullet so the powder burnt back and more progressively. It saved barrel life considerably but was rejected for cost reasons so I remember.
If you remove the pull out stopper (it's meant to be able to be pulled out) and look inside the case of a 25 Pounder you'll have see the same thing. A long flash tube and four bags of powder.
Three long...red, white, blue bags (charge 1, 2 and 3) that are arranged around the tube and a smaller square bag that rests on top of that tube that was the supercharge bag.
billgatese30
Well-Known Member
Out of interest, what do you get over a 25 shot sample?
I have the data for my go-to bullet for 21 shots and that was 5.5. I don't have may long measured strings since most measured shots were load development. This was from a seating depth development so they were all same load. I have a 50 round string but for a different bullet and that was just over 13. My go to bullet rarely goes over 6 on any load.
Same in 155mm
I didn't know that. I knew that the old 5.5" used a bagged charge like in Chieftain. Thank you.
I did the last one week artillery course at Larkhill that used the 25 Pounder and on the day that our class went to do the firing we were told that fact. With the words "This is the last course to be done with the 25 Pounder. For the future it will now be the "Light Gun" you saw earlier this week. So, gentlemen, all of this ammunition is to be fired off."
Instead of what would have been the usual portion of firing the gun so that you did I think two (or maybe even just one) rounds in each position...No1, No2, No3, through to No6) we fired of rather a lot. I think we each did ten rounds in each position. Or so many that in fact we got bored with it. I think there were twelve or so in the class and six did their firing then the other six did their firing.
It was indirect "direct" fire, using HE (yellow painted shells), at tank hulks and charge one. That is we could see the target yet the aiming was done on the dial sight rather than using any telescopic sight as would have been done with AP ammunition. We then laid out a massive arrow shaped pattern of the unused charges and burned them with a line of bags to lead the fire to start the arrow burning at the tip.
The thing that you feared, although it was a nonsense was that you might get your hand chopped off as aftre the shell was loaded with a ramming stock you then rammed the cartridge behind it (it was two piece ammunition) with the knuckles of your fist and the breech closed itself. It was a nonsense of course because the base of the cartridge was flush so your fist physically never could be endangered.
And sitting in the classroom learning "The Gunner Problem and How to Solve it" with a view of Stonehenge. All done through my school CCF when at age sixteen. I can still just recall the words to start calling for a shoot being "Fire Mission Battery..."
Sig have the hybrid cased ammo in 5.56, 6.5 CM, 6.8, 7.62 and 338 NM. The steel base means they can push the pressures to crazy levels. I imagine these will end up on the civvy market
tackb
Well-Known Member
i had a quick google and couldn't find any info on the creedmoor performance ?
Spoke with them at DSEI is and they say hybrid cased ammo gives 30% more kinetic energy on target (compared to standard military issue loads) due to the increased pressures the case can withstand without the case head blowing off... I think the idea for military use is short barrels with very similar ballistic and kinetic properties to those of a 14.5"+ barrels with these cartridges only issued for combat and normal 'low pressure' ones for training. Clearly the high pressure cartridges will burn out the barrels and working parts quickly, hence the training ammo. The utility for hunting would be interesting though... very short barrel, nice and light etc and for infrequent use
tackb
Well-Known Member
no such thing as a free lunch........
