UK HPR Field Trials Vs European Certificates
- Thread starter Alex88
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This is a very sweeping comment. Detrimental to the breed. You just have to train them. Mine don't kill sheep but they would if I didn't train them. Same with Cats. Mine do everything I want. Wildfowl,track,point snipe,retrieve gently to hand, retrieve a fox,take on a wounded deer. Show me one breed that comes close to that.
Alex88
Well-Known Member
Agreed, a good dog needs the instinct to want to do these things but the control and the training to stop them doing them! Select/breed against these instincts for too many generations and working ability is sure to decrease. In 50 years time an English bred HPR may sit and stay as quietly and calmly as a Labrador, but will It hold a buck like the German or Hungarians bred them to? Possibly not.
dunwater
Well-Known Member
The comment was made in the context of European lines, particularly with the wire hair, and UK/Irish requirements. Some European lines are “ hard” . In the UK the preference is for a softer dog more oriented towards bird shooting.
You could probably train a hard European dog to work birds, but if that’s what you want why not choose from a bird hunting line?
The HPR’s are versatile, but it’s unusual to find one that is good at everything in the job description.
Best all rounders I’ve seen are munsterlanders, but they are rarely found working here.
He’s only coming 3, I’ve taken him to a few trials in Ireland, but he hates being on the lead waiting! So I’ll let him work a few years and get some steam out of him, then about 6/7 I’ll start.
Gab
Member
Test of Natural Aptitude or TAN (from French)from different Kennel clubs like Munsterlander cover tracking. See a link below https://www.largemunsterlanderclub....37/2024-08-07_what_to_expect_at_a_nat_apt.pdf.
I have 3 Brittany's and they hunt quail, partidge, pheasants, wildfowling, rabbits, foxes and deer. They just hunt do not matter... difficult dogs to train in terms of steadiness but is not harder to hold on point than sit next to a high seat or walk on heel no lead for 2 hours stalking and then chase some blood trails. Trust their nose better than my thermal at a distances that I can't see the deer but they tell me where they are. Quite funny seen them pointing to Muntjacs holding in their hides. They not the best at everything but can do most... so the HPR and especially Britannys for me are the sweet spot.
I have 3 Brittany's and they hunt quail, partidge, pheasants, wildfowling, rabbits, foxes and deer. They just hunt do not matter... difficult dogs to train in terms of steadiness but is not harder to hold on point than sit next to a high seat or walk on heel no lead for 2 hours stalking and then chase some blood trails. Trust their nose better than my thermal at a distances that I can't see the deer but they tell me where they are. Quite funny seen them pointing to Muntjacs holding in their hides. They not the best at everything but can do most... so the HPR and especially Britannys for me are the sweet spot.
Alex88
Well-Known Member
That's the kind of test that any dog wishing to register it's offspring with the UK Kennel club should have to pass prior to breeding!
All KC go on about us health test after health test to "preserve a breed", why not this too??! Equally, if not more important! And that's coming from a vet who should be biased towards health testing!
Gab
Member
Indeed, I agree, I got my dogs from Spain and they come with a history of lineage and their TAN, DNA and hip displaxy records. Although there are cowboys breeding everywhere there really thorough people doing great work. Bear in mind most dogs are pets and people don't really use them for what they were breed to do. Most just chase a ball in the park and not even taste raw meat in their lives.
Alex88
Well-Known Member
Yes I hear that argument, so many of these dogs in the UK are going into non working homes, fair enough but:
1. Dogs that pass the above aptitude tests will be equally capable of being a pet
2. These HPR breeds are what they are because of generations of selecting for European working traits, if that stops now (like it has in this country) then the breeds will change very quickly
3. If the pet buyers don't like the fact that they are a working breed then they should buy something more suited to their needs.
Or if there is going to be a continuation of the trend: "that's a working line" and that's a "non working line" within breeds and breeders, then that needs to be more tightly regulated by the KC, which again would be best served by implementation of a working aptitude test. Maybe separate breed clubs or breed name?!
Apologies thinking out loud as usual but such an interesting topic!
1. Dogs that pass the above aptitude tests will be equally capable of being a pet
2. These HPR breeds are what they are because of generations of selecting for European working traits, if that stops now (like it has in this country) then the breeds will change very quickly
3. If the pet buyers don't like the fact that they are a working breed then they should buy something more suited to their needs.
Or if there is going to be a continuation of the trend: "that's a working line" and that's a "non working line" within breeds and breeders, then that needs to be more tightly regulated by the KC, which again would be best served by implementation of a working aptitude test. Maybe separate breed clubs or breed name?!
Apologies thinking out loud as usual but such an interesting topic!
dunwater
Well-Known Member
Theres nothing to stop an affiliated club asking the KC for a licence to run field events, the big problem is that the vast majority of members are interested in shows, not working. Thats how you got the tail docking ban and the electric collar ban.
Nowadays most working dogs are a small minority interest and about as common as hobby horse poo.
The established field work clubs are hanging on by their fingernails, the only hope I see is the number of lady handlers coming into the sport.
grauerjager
Active Member
I have 2 weimaraners, 1 of which currently trials and a youngster which will hopefully be ready tail end of the season, if not next year.
Yes you can go and watch. Offer to help and you'll be up front rather than stuck back in the gallery.
No they don't test for large game handling or hunting. As said it's mainly about birds and the work to get them up and shot.
Dog hunts. It points. It's flushed. It's shot. It's retrieved.
As said similar to a pointer trial crossed with a retriever.
I would very much prefer it to be like the European way of doing things but the option is there if you can travel over.
I'm hoping to go myself and watch it at the very least.
Fingers crossed the European testing makes its way over here soon ( although with the law as it is some parts of it wouldn't be allowed on that basis)
Yes you can go and watch. Offer to help and you'll be up front rather than stuck back in the gallery.
No they don't test for large game handling or hunting. As said it's mainly about birds and the work to get them up and shot.
Dog hunts. It points. It's flushed. It's shot. It's retrieved.
As said similar to a pointer trial crossed with a retriever.
I would very much prefer it to be like the European way of doing things but the option is there if you can travel over.
I'm hoping to go myself and watch it at the very least.
Fingers crossed the European testing makes its way over here soon ( although with the law as it is some parts of it wouldn't be allowed on that basis)
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