UK vs US deer stalking attitudes

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The deer Sika said:
My guess is that common sense has been used here and you’re probably a competent person if you’ve been doing it since you were 14 the police will take this into account but a complete novice with no experience won’t get issued a licence and again loads of change recently with certain events that have happened. I’m guessing you’ve had your license for awhile. No different than driving licenses everything has changed for the safety of everybody.
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I was a complete novice, I got issued a licence based on air rifle only experience and then a rimfire based only on air rifle experience and within 12 months an open certificate for a .223 and 6.5x55. The only fly in the ointment was a mentoring condition for shooting deer with either, though I could go and shoot fox or vermin with them alone.
 
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Robinson said:
Here in Norway we had this "Please explain why you want to buy this firearm" clause, when we applied for a permit to buy before. This led to bureaucrats sitting in their offices assessing what's good and what's not a suitable firearm, without having any experience in hunting at all. So when they revised our firearms law in 2010 ( I think) , they came up with the expression "hunters wardrobe" to describe what guns a hunter might need. The law specified that a hunter could buy 6 hunting guns, without explaining anything. And they called it a "hunters wardrobe". In the 2022 revision of our laws this wardrobe was expanded to 8 guns. Enough for me. If I want to buy a ninth gun, I will have to convince the police why none of my 8 guns aren't good enough for my need. Everybody is happy with this. The police have a easier job with less arguing , and the hunters are happy with it.
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How easily conceived are they for the 9th, 10th, 11th etc?

In the uk we have to justify each section one firearm (rifles and high capacity shotguns) but there is clear guidance as to what constitutes justification including calibres for quarry categorises. Your certificate also stipulates what you are allowed to use each one for. I’ve convinced them I have good reason for 21 firearms, the only debates I’ve had on occasion are Over the conditions applies to them.
 
Cootmeurer said:
The moment that springs to mind was 6 whitetail in 4 days, during October (which is still quite warm in the Southeatern US, perhaps 25C average). Being a member of a club (syndicate in your terms) we did have a skinning shed and walk in cooler. But also being one of 25 hunting the property, I couldn’t take all the cooler space (max hanging space was 10).

Larger organized clubs often have a cooler and common cleaning area of some sort, but this is much more common in the south, where season opens as early as August when temps can still be high 30s (centigrade).

In other areas where opening weekend may see large kill numbers - processors will sometimes have a rented/hired refrigerated semi trailer to store carcasses. Then, as previously mentioned, they may devote a week to deer instead of livestock. Unfortunately the same people that take their deer to said processors often only want mince or sausage so you deer becomes mixed with everyone else’s deer. Fastidious care is nullified when yours is ground/minced with the deer shot 7 times….

The tag system itself serves three purposes that I see. First - it is a funding vehicle for the Fish and Game Departments. Second - it ensures a somewhat equal chance to all to acquire a tag, especially in locations where tags are limited. Thirdly - it provides solid data to the same Fish and Game departments as to herd size, health, and conditions.

When I was younger we had to take each deer to a physical check station where it was weighed, sexed and aged. Nowadays most checks are electronic, with either a subset asked for greater data (as I was asked with my antelope this fall) or even tissue/jaw/tooth samples. I have provided bear teeth every time I shot one, and have once hunted a Chromoc Wasting Disease monitoring zone where we were asked to provide tissue.

In contrast, while I appreciate you system for what it is, you really have no way to monitor deer populations except voluntarily providing numbers. Further, you require a FAC tied to a gun, but no similar requirement for recording game. Essentially you are a “thousand” independent fiefdoms that each set your own take. It just seems horribly disjointed and random to me
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Other than the funding for the department, how does the tag system offer a clear picture of herd size?
 
25 Sharps said:
Other than the funding for the department, how does the tag system offer a clear picture of herd size?
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Kill reports.
After each animal is taken, it must either go to a physical check station or be electronically checked in within 24 hours or less (many states require electronic checks before moving the carcass)
When you put 200,000- 500,000 hunters afield at one time, their success rate is a much better measure than a dozen biologists driving roads

Those same hunters usually call in or contact others (or make social network posts) when they find areas with large numbers of dead animals, as some times occurs with EHD.
 
25 Sharps said:
How easily conceived are they for the 9th, 10th, 11th etc?

In the uk we have to justify each section one firearm (rifles and high capacity shotguns) but there is clear guidance as to what constitutes justification including calibres for quarry categorises. Your certificate also stipulates what you are allowed to use each one for. I’ve convinced them I have good reason for 21 firearms, the only debates I’ve had on occasion are Over the conditions applies to them.
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That would come to mad money every three years here in Ireland, @ €80 a firearm
 
25 Sharps said:
Looks like it’s going to be £47 per firearm here for variations now, or is it €80 per firearm at renewal?
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It's £47 for a chargeable variation, you can request multiple additional firearms / moderators on one variation.

Like-for-like, or ammunition levels are not chargeable.
 
fixedwheel said:
It's £47 for a chargeable variation, you can request multiple additional firearms / moderators on one variation.

Like-for-like, or ammunition levels are not chargeable.
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Yes I appreciate that, but what constitutes a chargeable variation?

Previously it was increasing the number of authorities on your certificate, the new description suggest it’s anything other than swapping one firearm for another of the same type and chambering.

That’s quite a big difference.
 
25 Sharps said:
How easily conceived are they for the 9th, 10th, 11th etc?

In the uk we have to justify each section one firearm (rifles and high capacity shotguns) but there is clear guidance as to what constitutes justification including calibres for quarry categorises. Your certificate also stipulates what you are allowed to use each one for. I’ve convinced them I have good reason for 21 firearms, the only debates I’ve had on occasion are Over the conditions applies to them.
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That's just 8 hunting weapons.
You can get more but you would have to show good reason, ie why can’t one of your eight not do the same job.
Competition weapons and handguns not included in the 8 gun total.
All FAC 's here for life unless medical conditions or convictions dictate otherwise. All FAC's open certificate.
If I want a 375 H&H mag to shoot roedeer then it is not a problem as long as I have a spare slot. They can be a bit funny if you want a 338Lapua Mag or 50 BMG though 🤔
No hunting exam, no firearms for hunting. Absolute rule here since 1986, grandfathers rights before that.
Sound moderators off ticket.
On the whole we have it pretty good 🙂
 
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Border said:
That's just 8 hunting weapons.
You can get more but you would have to show good reason, ie why can’t one of your eight not do the same job.
Competition weapons and handguns not included in the 8 gun total.
All FAC 's here for life unless medical conditions or convictions dictate otherwise. All FAC's open certificate.
If I want a 375 H&H mag to shoot roedeer then it is not a problem as long as I have a spare slot. They can be a bit funny if you want a 338Lapua Mag or 50 BMG though 🤔
No hunting exam, no firearms for hunting. Absolute rule here since 1986, grandfathers rights before that.
Sound moderators off ticket.
On the whole we have it pretty good 🙂
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Sounds like a system we could be looking at.

I don’t have figures to hand but do not believe Norway has a problem any greater than we do with criminal involvement with firearms.
 
25 Sharps said:
Sounds reasonable, thanks for clarifying.
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And this right here, is the big difference between the UK and the US.

A right to own what you want shouldn't factor in "reasonable" consideration, or be at the discretion of some government bureaucrat. It's either a right, or not. And rights shouldn't need permission from anyone.

But again, just a big difference in perspective and social conditioning, between our two countries.

ETA: And to clarify, I'm not saying this as a pejorative, rather just as an observation of the difference in social conditioning.
 
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MarinePMI said:
And this right here, is the big difference between the UK and the US.

A right to own what you want shouldn't factor in "reasonable" consideration, or be at the discretion of some government bureaucrat. It's either a right, or not. And rights shouldn't need permission from anyone.

But again, just a big difference in perspective and social conditioning, between our two countries.

ETA: And to clarify, I'm not saying this as a pejorative, rather just as an observation of the difference in social conditioning.
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Don’t disagree that the social view of firearms is very different between the two, but if I had to choose I would 100% choose our system. We have access to firearms and only get one mass shooting every 10 years or so. Dealing with beaurocrats is a price I am willing to pay for that.
 
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