Urban Roe Deer Immunocontraception Population Control - Yes or No?

Sam

Well-Known Member
Now then student Andy, I have just finished an e-mail to you which I foolishly believed had been sent to the admin asking for us to fill in a questionnaire and give you our opinion. In my reply to you I suggested that you join the forum and explain you quest to the members. I also said that you should be prepared to fight your corner. Well it seems that the impatience of youth got the better of you, and you have led with both your feet sticking out.

I love the way you have "researched" the unsuitable places for firearms "such as small woodlands and public parks with housing within 500m, public rights of way, public opposition, etc..." If you want to know something ask, and ask the right people. All the research material you need is held within the experience of the members of this site. If you really want to learn I would, if I were you, explain what it is you are after, why you are after it and what you intend to use it for. The urban deer are only pretty and cute until they destroy gardens and cause accidents, the public are fickle
Well said that man!!


Sam
 

Orion

Well-Known Member
i don't think there is 'a place unsuitable for control of deer' but i think there are environments unsuitable for the use of firearms, such as small woodlands and public parks with housing within 500m, public rights of way, public opposition, etc...
I think you need to research the continued successful use of suitable firearms in exactly the environments you have noted above and where you seem to believe they cannot be used safely. If you want to see it in operation on a large scale go to somewhere like the Jaegersborg Dyrehave in Copenhagen where culling and darting is undertaken with complete public access in place. If you want examples of where it is being applied in this country why not ask the forum members?

BTW. How are you proposing to administer the contraceptive vaccine without the possibility of ingestion by other species - darting would appear to be out as S.5 use is even more tighly controlled than 'regular' firearms?
 
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Flyite - i am genuine, i have been studying for 3 years now and graduate this time. CSL now FERA? yes i have been in contact with a lead scientist there whom is aware of the problems faced with immunocontraceptive but is confident they can be overcome in the near future. What did you find out? i would be interested to compare our results. Delivery method is difficult as capture is not an option with roe deer ... the only option being darting then? what do you think?

Storm - it is good to hear you have no problems although in the area i am studying there are many problems. Are there any extra precautions you have when conducting a cull in such an environment?

Zaitsev - very good arguments. allowing the deer to achive a sustainable balance would be great but with the deer having no natural predators and mild winters killing vertualy no young i am afraid this sustainable balance would be too excessive for an urban environment.

Someone mentioned 'acting God' which is true we have no right to medal with nature but didnt we do that by killing off all natural predators all them years ago?

Also i think that police shooting is a whole seperate issue.
 

Orion

Well-Known Member
Delivery method is difficult as capture is not an option with roe deer ... the only option being darting then? what do you think?
I'm sorry to say it, but what I think is that you have no idea. :(

I've netted and darted roe deer and the former is a relatively easy thing to do in a small/controlled environment due to the habit of roe to 'go round in circles' in their own territory. A blindfold over their eyes and a quick jab with the correct dose of Rompun and they're ready to travel in a correctly dimensioned and constructed deer box. Risk assessments and having a team of people who know how to handle deer are mandatory but it's no big deal to undertake.
 

Storm

Well-Known Member
You certainly nead the risk assessment for roe bucks.


Those antlers are at a nasty height :eek:
 

flytie

Well-Known Member
Flyite - i am genuine, i have been studying for 3 years now and graduate this time. CSL now FERA? yes i have been in contact with a lead scientist there whom is aware of the problems faced with immunocontraceptive but is confident they can be overcome in the near future. What did you find out? i would be interested to compare our results. Delivery method is difficult as capture is not an option with roe deer ... the only option being darting then? what do you think?

Also i think that police shooting is a whole seperate issue.
Andy, I think that I will refrain from communication with you! You do not appear to be the genuine article and I think my answer to you is.........................................Paralax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ft
 

TokaS

Well-Known Member
Flyite - i am genuine, i have been studying for 3 years now and graduate this time. CSL now FERA? yes i have been in contact with a lead scientist there whom is aware of the problems faced with immunocontraceptive but is confident they can be overcome in the near future. What did you find out? i would be interested to compare our results. Delivery method is difficult as capture is not an option with roe deer ... the only option being darting then? what do you think? - as has been said, even more restrictive with the licensing needed.

Storm - it is good to hear you have no problems although in the area i am studying there are many problems. Are there any extra precautions you have when conducting a cull in such an environment? - but hold on you have already said in your opinion the environemnts you have mentioned are unsuitable for the use of firearms...cay you tell us why you think this?..there are areas exactly as you have mentioned relatively close to me where they manage to cull using firearms ok at the moment [possibly not too much public opposition as deer numbers are low and it is done discreetly]...please tell us why you feel these environments arent suitable for the use of firearms....

Zaitsev - very good arguments. allowing the deer to achive a sustainable balance would be great but with the deer having no natural predators and mild winters killing vertualy no young i am afraid this sustainable balance would be too excessive for an urban environment. - this is what happens already isnt it?

Someone mentioned 'acting God' which is true we have no right to medal with nature but didnt we do that by killing off all natural predators all them years ago? - no, years ago people werent worried about the furture when you only lived till your mid 30s or so people wouldnt worry too much about the future, they didnt play God, they did what they could to reduce the threat to themselves and their stock. It wouldnt have happenned now but that is the position we find ourselves in and many on this site take the responsibility to deal with the situation as is due to us being their main predator now...that is nature/natural isnt it?

Also i think that police shooting is a whole seperate issue.- no i have to disagree, if you discharge a firearm in a public place or near to a public place then you have to be extra careful, when you pull the trigger you take responsibility for your actions. Before you do that you make sure the shot is safe...sadly in this country most of the police officers who would be doing this type of firearms work will have vastly less experience than most stalkers. Most have a half days weapon training every 5 or 6 weeks...thats it! if the police can manage to do it in difficult environments then why cant stalkers culling deer??
hope my comments make sense...why have you chosen this as your subject? and what angle are you coming at it from....what are your views of deer culling/control as is?

ATB

ATB
 
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This is fruitless, we could argue the pros and cons of immunocontraception all day. Admittedly i do not have all the answers, i dont think anyone does at this time. All i asked was would you support it ... obviously not. Would you support it if a flawless vaccine was introduced .... obviously not.

Such bias opinions from 'professionals' is disappointing
 

TokaS

Well-Known Member
... It is the purpose of my study not to irradicate culling, as i do understand the need for it, but to offer an alternative population control for wild urban Roe Deer in environments where culling by rifle is inappropriate, such as small urban woodlands, public parks, etc...

:?: Would you, the stalking community, support and/or carry out an immunocontraceptive population control on Deer if it was in an environment unsuitable for the use of firearms?​
1. any alternative or any other measures must be proven to work....at the moment your suggestion of contraception doesnt...
2. there are very few [possibly none] situations where some type of firearms coulnt be used... so perhaps little need for an alternative [certainly not one that at the moment doesnt work ...

i think we are all open minded but have asked for you to explain where you are coming from a bit better and why you have come to the conclusions you have so far...it feels a bit as though you have come to us with a closed mind!!?? not the other way around...

perhaps come back when it does work and ask again??

ATB
 

Paul at Fechan

Well-Known Member
It's a forum..... deal with it :-|

Urban deer are a fact of green area developments in and around populated areas so what do you do???

1 Kill the deer - not always an option for safety reason and will only reduce numbers in a local population
2 Trap the deer - causes stress, suffering and often injury but allows relocation of the few caught ideally so they get shot?? :doh:
3 Experimental methods - IC for example is delivered by feeding and what else eats the feed?
4 Remove green area habitat - not an option and dangerous because of displacement

IC has been a great attempt to say hey look at us and our non lethal attempt to control a population by removing its ability to reproduce. Yeh that works really well in a pen.


Rant over :smug:
 

6pointer

Well-Known Member
Yes i think contraception is the answer and i think that students that are studying it should be the first on the nets and the first to administer the drug by what ever method. Good god can you imgine one or two deer getting away with imobalon in them and gettng in to the urban food chain murder on a large scale. But it might put paid to poaching and also any one getting cheap venison.
 
People instantly think 'tree hugger' when a students mentions non-lethal control!

I am not coming at this study as an ecologist, i study landscape management which is basically making sure the management of my study area works without any problems and making sure all stakeholders are happy - one problem in my current study area is that of public uproar due to deer cull plans.

a compromise needs to be made and these deer need management before more lives are lost due to RTAs ... immunocontraception is an optional alternative.

Agree?
 

stone

Well-Known Member
Someone mentioned 'acting God' which is true we have no right to medal with nature but didnt we do that by killing off all natural predators all them years ago?
i think urban deer is more suseptical to natural predation than rural deer
rural deer realy only hav man as a rule and the weather at times
urban deer hav foxes, Man and their pets
urban foxes account for a lot of young , as do cars and dogs, aswell as a few adults too...
but what worries me more is the given hype about controlling urban deer and where the hype is coming from
in my area alone , the papers and radio hav jumped on the band wagon which the DI seem to hav set rolling
but so far the landowners that this is ment to affect hav not even been consulted or even approached
i actually manage deer on a urban farm and live in a city where there are a few deer inside the city limits
and hav been for over 20+ years , not even a local flyer through the letter box.......
So why now is there such a big surge on this and for what reason?????
Has some one run out of money and thought they would use urban deer as an excuse to get a little extra funding..!!!!
 

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