Variation Refusal Appeal - Ripe Shooting Insurance
- Thread starter Brave Echo Niner
- Start date
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
with half the story from the OP it’s open season for some entertainment and guesswork. Probably following on from some forum Stalking….
I’m sure the OP can handle some banter. He doesn’t need to expand on the actual events, but it will keep the post at the top of the unread list so it gets more views.
This is important.
In defending an appeal the Police will, amongst other things they may cite, say that they based their decision on the information YOU provided to them in support of the variation. Their argument will be that they do not have a crystal ball and hence have no idea if you have other relevant information or factors that might help them determine the application. If you think they have ignored information you've sent them this is where you can demonstrate they had it in the first place.
As far as submitting any ADDITIONAL information this can be a little difficult as they will argue, & the courts are likely to agree, that if it was relevant you should have submitted it in the first place.
HOWEVER, you have two lines of response to this.
Firstly, that had they asked for additional information or given you an indication that they required more information before they were able to determine you application then you would, of course, have provided it.
Secondly, if it is information that addresses any of the points made, issues raised or reasons given in their refusal.
There is a third line you could also follow & this is any case law or other precedent you can find that supports your application & can be used against their decision.
The key, as already mentioned above, is to get advice from a qualified legal professional who specialises in firearms law.
Good luck.
He has mentioned "entities", perhaps if he asked for pistol instead it may be granted
, joking aside, you've had a refusal over a variation, not a revocation, as you say you're unable to provide evidence on the portal, ask for a paper application, then you can provide all supporting evidence. I've dealt with a one refusal for myself and a few for friends, it usually comes down to how its worded. For something as trivial a a reapplication I don't see any advantage of engaging with a solicitor, quite the opposite in fact
Fog of war,….. Oh , Sorry, foggy post.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I would not go to legal on this. I would have quiet word with your Firearms Enquiry Officer and discuss. There are some things that simply won’t fly with the Chief Constable.
When you do reapply /if you reapply give the full and sufficient evidence to support your application / variation. Don’t just imply need, (just want it for deerstalking or Humane Despatch) demonstrate the need for that particular type of firearm. And give the FEO who is dealing with application the evidence to recommend to the Chief Constable that your application is granted.
If you cannot demonstrate, or cannot be bothered to demonstrate, the above then why should the Chief Constable grant the application.
As regards legal support through insurance, they will also need a clear demonstration of why you should granted the variation, and will also question whether you have adequately demonstrated this already. They are unlikely to go into bat for you if they don’t see that they have a good chance of winning.
When you do reapply /if you reapply give the full and sufficient evidence to support your application / variation. Don’t just imply need, (just want it for deerstalking or Humane Despatch) demonstrate the need for that particular type of firearm. And give the FEO who is dealing with application the evidence to recommend to the Chief Constable that your application is granted.
If you cannot demonstrate, or cannot be bothered to demonstrate, the above then why should the Chief Constable grant the application.
As regards legal support through insurance, they will also need a clear demonstration of why you should granted the variation, and will also question whether you have adequately demonstrated this already. They are unlikely to go into bat for you if they don’t see that they have a good chance of winning.
Wasting your time and money in my experience.
If it is a pistol and you do win you can expect the next years of your shooting career and license applications to be painful.
I tell everyone to complete their applications with more detail and info so that there is no leeway for refusal.
if its lawful, avalable, sufficient good reason and precedence exists there is very little reason to refuse
If however a regional authority issues a "policy" that is "anti" whatever it is you are requesting then you will find that no amount of legal challenge will get the Police to admit fault or retract a refusal.
If someone is rejected its usually down to a porrly structured good reason and understanding of the legislation and/or current Firearms policies in place
If it is a pistol and you do win you can expect the next years of your shooting career and license applications to be painful.
I tell everyone to complete their applications with more detail and info so that there is no leeway for refusal.
if its lawful, avalable, sufficient good reason and precedence exists there is very little reason to refuse
If however a regional authority issues a "policy" that is "anti" whatever it is you are requesting then you will find that no amount of legal challenge will get the Police to admit fault or retract a refusal.
If someone is rejected its usually down to a porrly structured good reason and understanding of the legislation and/or current Firearms policies in place
Don't go down the legal channel
Find an alternative solution
j
Find an alternative solution
j
Might this have been a case of I want such & such … rather than I need a , … for, … because?
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
As above, eat it, walk away.
Brave Echo Niner
Well-Known Member
More that I know the police force in question monitor this site and have threatened other members over what they’ve posted on certain topics.Don’t want to elaboratecan’t help some people
I am covering my own back, while trying to gain as much knowledge as possible off deliberately vague questions, so they cannot throw certain things back at me.
Apologies to those who find that frustrating, I appreciate more details would allow you to answer better and with more certainty.
I very much appreciate everyone who has taken the time to write posts, I am reading them all and taking what is said in.
Engaging with the FEO/Chief Inspector is not an option due to obvious prejudice by them regarding the variation/myself/my career, hence going down a more formal route is necessary.
I have generally had an okay relationship with them up until this point, however they have been unprofessional in a number of ways, and a professional complaint will be accompanying the appeal to address certain elements.
I would hope it takes a court order to make the site owners identify who is posting and i doubt FEOs spend their time reading all that’s posted on the many shooting forums, youtube etc.
So how have they threatened anyone on SD
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
To be honest I’ll be bloody surprised if they take you on, wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been wrong mind you but the way you’re making it out to be is bloody hard work and if they’re prepared to pay a bill, it’ll be to win!
If they’re not gonna win or don’t think they’ve got a chance to win, they’ll just sling you in the gutter
Jeff8861
Well-Known Member
Reading between the lines I would not pursue this through the courts. Im sure this can be sorted within the fld. I have dealt with cases were folk have applied for a pistol i won't go into detail. When I challenged the good reason aspect the argument was week. Especially as there were plenty of other straight forward options. There argument was public perception as the pistol was more discreet. This argument fell short when you looked at the times and locations.
100% happens. Not wanting to go off topic, but I've had things I've posted brought up.
They can obviously only match people if they happen to post things that narrow it down, but they definitely do.
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