What .308 powder alternative?
- Thread starter Boarboy
- Start date
N135 seems to be doing very well with 130 and 110 grain bullets in my rifle, 1:11 22"
Every load with the V-MAX came in under 1" @ 100 yards.
Alan
Every load with the V-MAX came in under 1" @ 100 yards.
Alan
308 is a very flexible cartridge and so the choice is large even after 'Reach' reduces the options. You don't mention bullet weight, but assuming that we're talking 150-175gn here, you can use:
Viht N135 (lighter end)
Viht N140
Viht N150 (155 and heavier)
Lovex SO62
Ramshot Tac (ball powder)
Ramshot Wild Boar (ball powder)
Hodgdon CFE223 (ball powder; expected to be declared Reach-compliant)
Reload Swiss RS50
Reload Swiss RS52 ('High-energy')
Alliant Re15
IMR-4166 'Enduron'
Reload Swiss RS52 has very similar characteristics and charge weights to H. VarGet, but everything there will work very well indeed.
Viht N135 (lighter end)
Viht N140
Viht N150 (155 and heavier)
Lovex SO62
Ramshot Tac (ball powder)
Ramshot Wild Boar (ball powder)
Hodgdon CFE223 (ball powder; expected to be declared Reach-compliant)
Reload Swiss RS50
Reload Swiss RS52 ('High-energy')
Alliant Re15
IMR-4166 'Enduron'
Reload Swiss RS52 has very similar characteristics and charge weights to H. VarGet, but everything there will work very well indeed.
Roedeer 1962
Well-Known Member
Alliant rl15 for me with nosler 168g bt heads
Leupsak
Well-Known Member
ChesterP
Well-Known Member
N140 is the ubiquitous European all round 308 powder and does well with everything from 110 right up to 175gr pills (I've even used nit with 190gr heavies although not ideal). However (there's always one) since switching to RS50 single base powder, I am getting just as consistent groups and precision with less temperature sensitivity, less pressure issues (some of my loads were a little hot) and significantly better MV. The accuracy loads are far less hot than I was getting with N140 which seems to have a very non-linear rise in velocity with load pressure whereas RS powders seem to be more linear giving better velocities lower down. Recoil is noticeably less too. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend RS50 over N140. It does everything N140 does, only better (ie lower pressure, lower temp sensitivity, better MV and still very clean burning).
Bear in mind that what we now knows as Reload Swiss RS50 (Nitrochemie WLP-220) was originally imported into the UK in bulk by Nigel Cole-Hawkins then trading as Commonside Firearms, now changed to Propellants UK), repackaged in 1kg bottles and sold as 'TR140'
The TR in the name is 'Target Rifle' and the 140 reference was to this propellant's similarity to Viht N140 in terms of its internal ballistics behaviour. Given the lack of manufacturer's loading data at that time, Nigel's advice was to simply use N140 data to get near identical results.
Normally, this is very bad advice indeed to recommend using one grade as a straight substitute for that from another maker with no relationship between them, but in this case it's spot on. What one does, the other does too at near indentical charge weights. Testing this out in 223 and 308 I obtained MVs with so little difference over a 3gn range of charge weights that they could well have been different production lots of a single powder. (If switching, use the appropriate company's data, both now available, and work up from reduced charges as normal.)
There is evidence that RS50 is a bit more flexible than N140. Generally, IME the true single-based propellants in the Nitrochemie / Reload Swiss range (RS50 and RS62, the latter an excellent alternative to IMR and Hodgdon H4350) are really superb performers.
So either (N140 and RS50) is an excellent choice for 308 with most bullet weights depending on factors such as local availability and price. Viht has the advantage of a longstanding and very widely dispersed supply chain and plenty of data on its use and loads from both manufacturer and users given its 35 or so year history here. (I started using this powder in the mid 80s as an alternative to the old ICI Nobel 'Rifle 1' grade when Mountain & Sowden Ltd first brought these Finnish propellants here - the only grades available were N140 and N160 for a few years until Tim Hannam took the franchise and massively expanded the product range.)
Hannams Reloading has increased its Viht orders substantially in order to meet shortfalls caused by the loss of most Hodgdon and IMR grades this year, so there shouldn't be any major supply problems. (Well we can hope - but who knows how things will pan out in practice!)
The TR in the name is 'Target Rifle' and the 140 reference was to this propellant's similarity to Viht N140 in terms of its internal ballistics behaviour. Given the lack of manufacturer's loading data at that time, Nigel's advice was to simply use N140 data to get near identical results.
Normally, this is very bad advice indeed to recommend using one grade as a straight substitute for that from another maker with no relationship between them, but in this case it's spot on. What one does, the other does too at near indentical charge weights. Testing this out in 223 and 308 I obtained MVs with so little difference over a 3gn range of charge weights that they could well have been different production lots of a single powder. (If switching, use the appropriate company's data, both now available, and work up from reduced charges as normal.)
There is evidence that RS50 is a bit more flexible than N140. Generally, IME the true single-based propellants in the Nitrochemie / Reload Swiss range (RS50 and RS62, the latter an excellent alternative to IMR and Hodgdon H4350) are really superb performers.
So either (N140 and RS50) is an excellent choice for 308 with most bullet weights depending on factors such as local availability and price. Viht has the advantage of a longstanding and very widely dispersed supply chain and plenty of data on its use and loads from both manufacturer and users given its 35 or so year history here. (I started using this powder in the mid 80s as an alternative to the old ICI Nobel 'Rifle 1' grade when Mountain & Sowden Ltd first brought these Finnish propellants here - the only grades available were N140 and N160 for a few years until Tim Hannam took the franchise and massively expanded the product range.)
Hannams Reloading has increased its Viht orders substantially in order to meet shortfalls caused by the loss of most Hodgdon and IMR grades this year, so there shouldn't be any major supply problems. (Well we can hope - but who knows how things will pan out in practice!)
steveford1
Well-Known Member
As previous posts V140
DJC
Well-Known Member
Been to the range today shooting 308 with vit 540 brill
ChesterP
Well-Known Member
Did you do any comparisons Laurie of your recorded velocities with load starting low and working up? I've only done it with two different .308 bullets (190 and 175 SMK) and one .223 bullet (69 TMK). In those cases I found that the RS (TR140) results when plotted as load V's MV didn't tend to spike as much right at the upper end of safe loadings, and gave a more linear increase in MV overall, notably more so near the top of the load ladder in each case. N140 in all cases seemed to spike, and at say 3/4 of the way up each load ladder was way behind on velocities.
For example, before reaching pressure signs using 44.6 gr RS50 with the 175 SMK I was obtaining 2,764 fps. I was starting to go over-pressure with the N140 at 43.5gr with the same bullet for 2614 fps. It the equivalent load of RS50 it gave 2626fps for the same load. It was a similar story with the 223, but the MV differences were even greater (in favour of the RS50). What stood out for me even when the ambient temperature increased was that I was getting higher MVs with no pressure signs and lower recoil when using RS50. One particularly warm day at Warminster convinced me when comparing my N140 loads with RS and the same bullets in 308. The RS shot sweetly with mild recoil. The N140 thumped like an angry giant rabbit and left my shoulder black and blue as pressure spikes started to occur and I decided that safety was the better side of valour and drew a line under those loads when I saw the ejector marks on the cases. In that case, the RS load was a stiffer one than the Vhit load.
Last edited:
NorthDorset
Well-Known Member
Vhitavouri N140 or TR140 work just as well as each other. Within a grain on my top loads for long range.
kev.rem700
Well-Known Member
N140 for me.
ChesterP
Well-Known Member
:?:
I'd have thought that N140 is better for longer barrel life as it is single base, and it is well documented that RS52 gives higher velocities as well as more rapid throat erosion especially if loaded "hot".
Similar threads
