What age roughly are these?

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tikka2506

Well-Known Member
These are jaws from 2 bucks I shot on Friday around Kirkcudbright area, quite close to the shore line but reasonable quality food. Both were six pointers heavy coronets with thinning beams, what age bracket do you think?
View attachment 31529
 

re'M'ington

Well-Known Member
This should be good............

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teyhan1

Well-Known Member
Without tooth disecting ageing is virtually impossible without other factors taken into account. Antlers themselves may give a rough indication, as will the body and even then it will only be a wild guess.
Even with tooth disecting you would only be within a year or two at best.
Animals should only ever be classified as young, middle aged or old.
And anybody who goes any further is a fool.
 

baguio

Well-Known Member
Animals should only ever be classified as young, middle aged or old.
And anybody who goes any further is a fool.
Slightly harsh me thinks teyhan? I have a jaw board with ages from 6 months to 10 years ish. They all come from the same beat too. Whilst the 10 year old may be 9 or even 11 and the 6 year old may be 5 or 7 there is a definite wear difference and if I shoot something on that beat I would say I could be accurate within a year without looking like a fool!
However back to the OP. The jaws have been thrown together so I'm not even going to bother getting my board out for a rough comparison!
 

teyhan1

Well-Known Member
Slightly harsh me thinks teyhan? I have a jaw board with ages from 6 months to 10 years ish. They all come from the same beat too. Whilst the 10 year old may be 9 or even 11 and the 6 year old may be 5 or 7 there is a definite wear difference and if I shoot something on that beat I would say I could be accurate within a year without looking like a fool!
However back to the OP. The jaws have been thrown together so I'm not even going to bother getting my board out for a rough comparison!

Not harsh at all. You have said it yourself, that your jaws come from your beat, move a mile down the road and your jaws mean nothing. Ageing serves no purpose in deer management
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
Not harsh at all. You have said it yourself, that your jaws come from your beat, move a mile down the road and your jaws mean nothing. Ageing serves no purpose in deer management

Personally I wouldn't go as far as to say ageing serves no purpose in deer management, that is a rather sweeping statement if you don't mind me saying so. However I do agree that the only definite way you can age any beast is by cross section of the teeth, but a jaw board will give you a bench mark also, but not so definitive.

It is also true to say I think that the environment they live in, as in the vegetation and geology of the soil would also play a part in the tooth wear.

Believe it or not their is a method that was being used on fossil teeth that could actually tell what type of food had been eaten, however this was to my knowledge only for extinct carnivores. Whether this can be or has been applied to ungulates is another matter.
 

teyhan1

Well-Known Member
Personally I wouldn't go as far as to say ageing serves no purpose in deer management, that is a rather sweeping statement if you don't mind me saying so. However I do agree that the only definite way you can age any beast is by cross section of the teeth, but a jaw board will give you a bench mark also, but not so definitive.

It is also true to say I think that the environment they live in, as in the vegetation and geology of the soil would also play a part in the tooth wear.

Believe it or not their is a method that was being used on fossil teeth that could actually tell what type of food had been eaten, however this was to my knowledge only for extinct carnivores. Whether this can be or has been applied to ungulates is another matter.

Yes it may be a sweeping statement but I think far too many people get caught in the trap of trying to exactly age an animal.

As I previously said, the only aging should be young, middle aged or old. Given that those assesments have to be made on a live animal in the field, that won't allow a full dental examination before being shot then I have always failed to understand the need to exactly age a deer. The only certainty is that it's not getting any older!!
 

bogtrotter

Well-Known Member
It maybe of interest to try to age animals from your area and after a time and enough animals to compare you will probably be able to age them within a year or so either way.


As Teyhan1 said for management purposes all you need to do is be able to tell young middle aged and old on the hoof so as to speak, while trying to age by tooth erosion is interesting, its not a lot of use as a management tool as you can't study the teeth while the beast is alive.
 

glogin

Well-Known Member
While trying to age by tooth erosion is interesting, its not a lot of use as a management tool as you can't study the teeth while the beast is alive.

​But you can check whether you were right before pulling the trigger or not and it will make you a better stalker. Just my opinion.
 

baguio

Well-Known Member
I'm still struggling to understand why anyone who attempts to age the animals they shoot more accurately than young, medium or old is a fool? I would have thought that it was up to them but hey ho, my mistake!
 

Buchan

Well-Known Member
I'm in agreement that teeth cannot be an accurate guide to age as there are too many variables. Those who own horses will be aware of the fun and games relating to ageing from teeth. A study was done using very experienced vets and photos of teeth. Up to 5/6 it's reasonable accurate, beyond that it gets increasingly inaccurate and once into double figures it's hopeless!
Having said that, I still have a go!
 

robbie rowantree

Well-Known Member
Deer can be aged to within about a month by the annular structure of dental cementum. This is quite a painstaking technique that requires access to some basic lab equipment which most of us don't have. However it is possible to boil the jaw extract PM3 and section at centre 90 degrees to the jaw. You can then polish this cut surface and look at the cementum layers built up under a normal magnifying glass. Morena, who is on this site, did some very good explanations of it last year, try a google search and it should come up, it includes a few useful images.
It is useful to do a few times and you will get a feel for the eruption and wear on the deer's teeth in the area you are stalking, a look at the wear pattern will allow for a reasonably accurate estimation of age thereafter.
 

AdrianC

Well-Known Member
Instead of just showing the teeth, why not show the thickness of pedicles and the frontal suture(?) as well?

The sum of the parts can give a more accurate guesstimate of age rather than just one aspect.
 

pitiliedon

Well-Known Member
As has been said not a lot of use in itself knowing how old an animal is when it's hanging in larder but if you are fortunate enough to have hefted deer a jaw chart can be reasonably accurate . we are lucky enough to have had several seasons deer, have the teeth sliced and aged when comparing this with the larder sheet estimate it is usually on the money or at worst a year out. In collating this age information against body weights /condition/ antler quality/ fecundity you would hope to see some pattern that may assist with management. I dentify where hinds do poorly and well . It would allow you to determine where to drop numbers or possibly raise them. This only has more value the longer you can keep the records going for. It still surprises me how many 6 point staggies in the glass turn out to be 7,8 or 9yr olds in the larder.
 
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