What is the fascination with short barrels in the UK

[kennyc]

I think the original question was wrong, it should have been "why are American .22LR barrels so damn long?"
as to short barrel fetishs? just look at the drive to produce AR's in various calibres with as short a barrel as possible!
for UK stalking the factory length seems to do most people very well, although it would be nice to be able to get calibres that like longer barrels as common factory builds (6.5x55 comes to mind as last time I looked 24"+ was quite hard to obtain in a factory rifle)
moderator use will obviously influence choices to some extent, but how many people actually buy an 18" barrel as opposed to a 20-22" ? and how many people then cut down their new barrel? some do obviously, but then some people will buy a new rifle and have the barrel changed straight away, each to their own

 

[scotch_egg]

Run your rifles through a chrono the run you ballistic app . I have seen ammo running hundreds of fps below what it says on recipe sheets all because of barrel length

I chrono all my own rifles and also hand load. I agree that there can be exceptions to the rule. But these are generally the magnums. Not the short actions based around the .473 bolt face.

I mention the ballistics app to encourage people t view the difference a few hundred fps loss have on a bullet.

Hornady 147gr ELD-M bullet

26” barrel @2728fps for 12.5”drop @ 300m

18” barrel @ 2500fps for a 16.4” drop @ 300m

That’s a heavy bullet. When we look at a 130gr bullet more suitable for stalking the drop is less.

130gr Nosler accubond

26” barrel @ 2859fps for a 11.9” drop at 300m

18” barrel @ 2665fps for a 14.9” drop at 300m

It doesn’t make much weight difference on a sporter weight barrel but 8” of barrel could allow you to use a slightly heavier profile if using the same rifle for a bit of range work.

I own a 20” 6.5 creedmoor and a 24” 6.5 creedmoor. They are running at 100fps difference in line with the 25fps prediction. You must use real world figures when you take the rifle into the field. Please don’t just assume the velocity on the box of factory ammunition is accurate in your rifle.

This is a good article on the 6.5 Creedmoor 6.5 Creedmoor- Effects of Barrel Length on Velocity 2019

 

[Tulloch]

I chrono all my own rifles and also hand load. I agree that there can be exceptions to the rule. But these are generally the magnums. Not the short actions based around the .473 bolt face.
. You must use real world figures when you take the rifle into the field. Please don’t just assume the velocity on the box of factory ammunition is accurate in your rifle.

This is a good article on the 6.5 Creedmoor 6.5 Creedmoor- Effects of Barrel Length on Velocity 2019

oh exactly , I proved this on my .22lr speed tests with many factory rounds running 10fps higher than what the box says and some brands 100fps lower than box

look at your 18" barrel your only 50fps legal for deer in Scotland and your data clearly shows the differences and in many cases big differences that are imporetant.

we are not talking accuracy or harmonics here we are talking speeds , you can shoot a .22lr accurately beyond its capabilities if the data is right

 

[Klenchblaize]

There should and would be far greater fascination with short barrels if more Woodland Stalkers actually tried a stutzen. Until you have you may only dream of the delights in sneaking through a closed over hazel copice without once unshouldering the rifle as you pass beneath any number of obstacles that would otherwise grab at your barrel in a triffid-like manner.

In short (sorry) the loss of a few hundred FPS from a 243 is a sacrifice well worth making if shots are of a distance most are taken when Lowland woodland stalking.

K

 

[Tulloch]

oh exactly , I proved this on my .22lr speed tests with many factory rounds running 10fps higher than what the box says and some brands 100fps lower than box

look at your 18" barrel your only 50fps legal for deer in Scotland and your data clearly shows the differences and in many cases big differences that are imporetant.

we are not talking accuracy or harmonics here we are talking speeds , you can shoot a .22lr accurately beyond its capabilities if the data is right

 

[8x57]

I was looking at a .308 rifle in a gunshop in north Wales some weeks ago, it was a Thompson Center Icon. A nice well put together rifle that definitely appealed to me but when I picked it up the first thing that struck me was the length of the barrel, 24 inches long and not screw cut. Maybe I've just become accustomed to shorter barrels but it seemed to have all the grace and balance of a fishing pole.
As sorely tempted as I was by this rifle if I had purchased it the first stop on my way home would have been to pop into Mike Norris's and have him chop the long tube down to a more manageable 20 inches, far nicer for stalking through the woods with even with a couple of inches extra with a moderator fitted.

 

[Wills]

Probably alot to do with the moderator fetish.....
Regarding velocity loss, as you probably well know, some cartridges are more forgiving than others, the 308w being a prime candidate. Others like 243,6.5x55,270w and 30-06 perform better with longer barrels, although homeloading can adjust powders/charges to reduce muzzle blast and ensure full powder burns.

I read in one of the shooting mags that cut down a .270 found that performance improved a little then dropped off past an optimum point. Not sure the performance change made a material difference at normal shooting ranges.

 

[User00033]

Ladies... I present to you... the Carbine. Look it up. Has advantages. Few disadvantages. Suits certain cartridges very well, especially 0.473" bolt face, rimless, 308 based short action cartridges. Been around a long time. Kills things no less dead than the slightly longer version.

Not sure what unholy places you're coming across all these short magnums, whilst I am sure they exist in the hands of some muppets, honestly if someone has one then who cares, they're a muppet.

Moderators. I value my hearing, a lot. Any argument to the contrary is silly and unworthy of debate. My choice, upsides for me far outweigh the downsides, who cares what anyone else thinks? Moderators are very very useful. Ask all the old barstards on hear. Ha ha geddit. Pardon?

Carbines are very useful. Moderated carbines are extremely useful. 24" and 26" rifles are nice. I have some carbines, all moderated, and some 24" and one 26". All are worthy of their place in the cabinet.

Pick the one that suits your application on the day, end of story. Oh and by the way today in the Rotoehu I shot goats and wallabies at over 400m with a 24" unmoderated .300 Win Mag and a 18" moderated .308 Winchester. Would anyone like to guess how the pests felt about it? And while you're at it, which do you think was the nicer rifle to shoot with?

 

[Mossypaw]

No fascination, but very handy for sticking in your pocket !

 

[Sharpie]

The yanks have some silly rules about rifles. Sub (I think) 16" is not allowed without paperwork. I may have got this wrong, because they love their AR15s which where designed around a 14" barrel, including gas ports, to shoot .223 or the Nato equivalent.

Whereas here, for .22 LR, 14" is about optimum, and for those who want to go shorter, 12" is the minimum.

A 16" .308 gives up very little to a much longer one. Hence things like the RPA Woodland Stalker,. Though in .243 it doesn't work, legally.

I've shot an RPA "stubby" .308 16" folding stock job out to 900 metres and it performed perfectly. Wish I could afford one.

We like our moderators (yanks can't have them without paperwork, taxes etc.), depending on design they add back a few inches.

Why carry a long rifle to no purpose ? Unless you think that a "magnum cartridge" is necessary to shoot anything hereabouts.

 

[Ranger22]

I think you've touched on an interesting point, why do manufacturers insist on the 1 in 10 twist as the only option for the 243 ? Sako , Tikka and CZ all offer a choice of twist rates for 223 . .

My 243 has a twist rate of 1in 9.25,

From what I have been told by a very reputable rifle smith, most of what is going to happen in a barrel happens within the first 16 inches.

 

[Tulloch]

My 243 has a twist rate of 1in 9.25,

From what I have been told by a very reputable rifle smith, most of what is going to happen in a barrel happens within the first 16 inches.

Is it a Remmy or a Savage?

 

[Ranger22]

Is it a Remmy or a Savage?

Remington 700 sps

 

[Tulloch]

Remington 700 sps

yer it is genuinely only Savage and Remmy that do that twist well over here that is , I am actually thinking of getting a savage

 

[Sharpie]

No fascination, but very handy for sticking in your pocket !

View attachment 129767

Ah that Bergara. 16.5" ISTR. Very tempting.

 

[Sharpie]

Brock and Norris will make a "Ratel" 18" custom in .308. Good enough for anything, I think.

Ratel Rifle | Custom Rifles by Brock & Norris - Accuracy Guaranteed

Ratel Rifle Named after the companys Honey Badger emblem this little brute punches well above its weight, despite its compact size this rifle is a thousand yard

www.brockandnorris.co.uk

Or you could just buy a Howa with a 20" barrel.

 

[stevenedwards]

sometimes we don't have to just accept what we're given,,a bit like the trouble of just accepting government regulations, basc type issues and brexit and so on... There's lots of strong opinions in the UK but when things come to the boil, people are very submissive and bow to the powers that be.. have you ever written to firearms manufacturers and explained what you really want? (I have), have you ever said no to a gunshop and required that rifle you want to buy be delivered with a longer barrel?,,or do we as a culture just 'accept' because we believe the end outcome will be the same anyway and defiance will only give us trouble along with way..

Finch - this is observation not a personal attack btw

I tried with Mauser,Blaser and Sako when I wanted a 243 with 1:8 twist. Only Blaser replied with a standard "refer to your dealer for detailed specifications" email. Couple of weeks later they did send a really nice 2019 catalogue detailing the full range 343 pages of photographs and sales blurb very expensively done and not one reference to twist rate for any rifle just masses of detail about stick on leather bits and other junk. It seems affectation makes more business sense than technical detail.

 

[stevenedwards]

not much of a comparison unless exact same rifle/stock/etc. tbh

No direct comparison was intended they are very different makes. Interestingly the 26 inch 243 is 11.75 inches shorter then the 20 inch Creedmoor with both wearing SL5 Mods

 

[6pt-sika]

There are A LOT of rifles made in the USA at present that are finished with 16 1/4 to 16 1/2 inch barrels and threaded at the factory . Obviously they’re threaded for suppressors , the barrel length is more dictated by the ATF here as anything under 16” requires a $200 tax stamp and a 9-12 month wait for approval . Now with that being said the majority of the short threaded barrel guns will be 223 , 308 , 300 BK and to a lesser degree 6.5 Grendel . This is both in bolt guns and AR’s . My factory threaded HB 260 is 24” I think all my AR’s are 22” and my Grendel bolt gun that’s threaded is 24” . Now with that being said I’ve liked Mannlicher stocked (stutzen) rifled since I was 5 years old so at present I own six rifles in that configuration all are 20” . But in the past I owned a Sako factory stocked stutzen in 222 that left the factory at 24” , looked a bit unusual I’ll admit . But I like barrels from 20-27” .

 

[Sharpie]

No direct comparison was intended they are very different makes. Interestingly the 26 inch 243 is 11.75 inches shorter then the 20 inch Creedmoor with both wearing SL5 Mods

That surprises me very much. Perhaps you should check your facts.