What model of shotgun? Stock advice needed

[mikeakc]

Hi all,
My shotgun shooting has been mediocre at best for a long time now. The other day I treated myself to a session with Bill at Lower Lakes Shooting Ground and he completely transformed my shooting in an hour. Aside from the basics of stance and mount, he identified that my gun doesn't fit me, and herein lies the problem.

I have a Silver pigeon which I extended to 15" LOP. This is right for me, but what I didn't know is that this effectively moved my head backwards down the stock, dropping my line of sight below the bead so I can only really see the action instead of the rib. When he taped on a comb riser, I went from hitting 25% to 60% of the clays I shot at. Unbelievable.

I've decided to part ways with the Silver Pigeon and get a gun that fits, but I can't find one. I don't want to butcher the stock and get an adjustable comb, I don't like the look of them and the stock has already been tampered with.

I'm fairly slim build, 5'11" with quite long arms and a trip this morning to Duchy gunsmiths in Ladock, Cornwall, confirmed that I need a 15 1/4 ish length of pull AND a high comb. They recommended I might find this in a Miroku MK38 / MK60 or MK70 but I've been unable to track one down with these criteria (I'd also like 28" barrels as this is all for rough shooting).

I no longer feel the urge to carry a nice bit of timber and engraving around with me, I'd be happy with a £200 gun as long as it was reliable and fitted me although I could spend more if it was necessary. My question then is can anybody who has had similar experience recommend a model which could tick the boxes above? (High comb, 15+" length of pull, over / under, 28" barrels)

I realise this is all very specific so any advice is very gratefully received!
Mike

 

[triggertrix]

For years the silver pigeon was made with poor cheek weld/drop, and it was the reason I sold mine. I know use my Fathers old 1980’s silver pigeon which is perfect!

I’m 5’11”’and would not like a 15”
LOP at all!, are you sure this is right for you?

Most guns can be bent to fit you, I’d say try many and when you find one that falls/feels well, have the stock bent/fitted to your natural alignment

 

[Rhodesianjess]

I'm 6 foot 2 inch,arms like an orangutan, I've found older models of Browning or Miroku shoot ok for me. My go to gun for clays is a Nikko skeet gun , only 14 and 3/4 LOP but shoots exactly where I'm looking.
The only way you're really going to find out if a gun suits you is to try it before purchasing, preferably with a good coach accompanying you. A lot of reputable gunshops will let you do this, especially if a sale is looking likely.
Best of luck with your search.

 

[Smellydog]

To much is made on length of pull. To short is always better than to long...within reason.

Don't labour the lop but do when trying in a shop close your eyes and pretend you are swinging on a bird. Then open your eyes. If your shooting eye is over the center of the barrel and you can see some rib, it fits. You just need a final firing test to confirm.

My RFD lets me take a gun away to try for a couple of days. I really appreciate the gesture and the ex world champ knows why I need to try

 

[bbrc]

I had similar issues in needing a high comb on a gun
See if you can find a trap gun that has been sporterised, either the chokes opened out or multichoked
I bought a miroku mk70 multichoke sporter and found that a trap stock off a mk38 fit straight on and that was me sorted out

 

[Malxwal]

MK60 tend to have a lower comb than MK70 or MK38,apart from the High Pheasant variants, but they're 32" barrels. You may find a Browning B525 sporter with 28" barrels?
An MK38 trap with non adjustabl stock, will have a higher comb, although 30" barrels likely shortest, and will have a slightly shorter stock.

 

[NullMac]

I realise this is all very specific so any advice is very gratefully received!

You may not want to hear this but this is what you need to understand. I am not trying to be rude here.

You have now discovered that your gun does not fit and you need to find one that does. However, your requirements are not in fact very specific that are very very vague. Your description is not a fitting specification. A small change at the stock makes a big difference downrange.

Now that means 2 things.

1. A properly fitted stock is very personal.
2. Any variance in the mount (either gun up or gun down) can/will negate the benefit of the fitting as the rear sight (the eye) keeps changing.

Despite what the 'smiths would like to tell you it is very difficult to actually create a perfect fit for a variety of reasons which I will not go into here but is mainly to do with the act of fitting not really being representative of taking a shot. There is always an element of getting used to a stock. There are many elite shooters who I could name who have had their stock fitted by their sponsoring manufacturer who end up taking a file to it when they finally get the gun . So it is not an exact science.

What you don't want to hear is that to minimise the pain, you should definitely buy a stock with an adjustable comb in the first instance. Get a coach to set it up with you on targets. Your mount is likely to improve with a better fitting gun and you will begin to get a feel for further adjustments that you need as your shooting improves. Having said that don't keep fiddling with it. Get it about right then learn to live with it. If you are always a bit high for a few months then that may be a reason to tweak, but not on the basis of a couple of outings.

Fit it on a real target, a teal at the top for example. Not on a pattern plate. 'Smiths want to use a plate, Elite shooters think they are the devil incarnate.

Do not get a stock bent, it will move back.

There is a reason that most new shotguns are designed and marketed with an adjustable stock.

I would also suggest that fit is not actually the most important characteristic of a gun. You can change the fit. However you need to get a gun with dynamics that suit you. If you are 6'7 and built like a tank a short, light, fast gun is going to be completely overpowered, equally if you are 5'2" a 32" gun that swings like a concrete fence post (not all do) is not for you. Get this wrong and you are stuffed (barrel weights are a waste of time, they are fitted at the wrong end)

Good luck!

 

[Malxwal]

B

I had similar issues in needing a high comb on a gun
See if you can find a trap gun that has been sporterised, either the chokes opened out or multichoked
I bought a miroku mk70 multichoke sporter and found that a trap stock off a mk38 fit straight on and that was me sorted out

Best gun ever, a 32" MK38 trap with MK70 woodwork. Oh how I wish I hadn't sold that @welshwarrior

 

[triggertrix]

You may not want to hear this but this is what you need to understand. I am not trying to be rude here.

You have now discovered that your gun does not fit and you need to find one that does. However, your requirements are not in fact very specific that are very very vague. Your description is not a fitting specification. A small change at the stock makes a big difference downrange.

Now that means 2 things.

1. A properly fitted stock is very personal.
2. Any variance in the mount (either gun up or gun down) can/will negate the benefit of the fitting as the rear sight (the eye) keeps changing.

Despite what the 'smiths would like to tell you it is very difficult to actually create a perfect fit for a variety of reasons which I will not go into here but is mainly to do with the act of fitting not really being representative of taking a shot. There is always an element of getting used to a stock. There are many elite shooters who I could name who have had their stock fitted by their sponsoring manufacturer who end up taking a file to it when they finally get the gun . So it is not an exact science.

What you don't want to hear is that to minimise the pain, you should definitely buy a stock with an adjustable comb in the first instance. Get a coach to set it up with you on targets. Your mount is likely to improve with a better fitting gun and you will begin to get a feel for further adjustments that you need as your shooting improves. Having said that don't keep fiddling with it. Get it about right then learn to live with it. If you are always a bit high for a few months then that may be a reason to tweak, but not on the basis of a couple of outings.

Fit it on a real target, a teal at the top for example. Not on a pattern plate. 'Smiths want to use a plate, Elite shooters think they are the devil incarnate.

Do not get a stock bent, it will move back.

There is a reason that most new shotguns are designed and marketed with an adjustable stock.

I would also suggest that fit is not actually the most important characteristic of a gun. You can change the fit. However you need to get a gun with dynamics that suit you. If you are 6'7 and built like a tank a short, light, fast gun is going to be completely overpowered, equally if you are 5'2" a 32" gun that swings like a concrete fence post (not all do) is not for you. Get this wrong and you are stuffed (barrel weights are a waste of time, they are fitted at the wrong end)

Good luck!

agree with all but this: "Do not get a stock bent, it will move back." - if done properly, with decent quality wood in the first instance, it will not. Not saying to be rude, just saying as have been there many times.

 

[Magnificent 7]

Hi all,
My shotgun shooting has been mediocre at best for a long time now. The other day I treated myself to a session with Bill at Lower Lakes Shooting Ground and he completely transformed my shooting in an hour. Aside from the basics of stance and mount, he identified that my gun doesn't fit me, and herein lies the problem.

I have a Silver pigeon which I extended to 15" LOP. This is right for me, but what I didn't know is that this effectively moved my head backwards down the stock, dropping my line of sight below the bead so I can only really see the action instead of the rib. When he taped on a comb riser, I went from hitting 25% to 60% of the clays I shot at. Unbelievable.

I've decided to part ways with the Silver Pigeon and get a gun that fits, but I can't find one. I don't want to butcher the stock and get an adjustable comb, I don't like the look of them and the stock has already been tampered with.

I'm fairly slim build, 5'11" with quite long arms and a trip this morning to Duchy gunsmiths in Ladock, Cornwall, confirmed that I need a 15 1/4 ish length of pull AND a high comb. They recommended I might find this in a Miroku MK38 / MK60 or MK70 but I've been unable to track one down with these criteria (I'd also like 28" barrels as this is all for rough shooting).

I no longer feel the urge to carry a nice bit of timber and engraving around with me, I'd be happy with a £200 gun as long as it was reliable and fitted me although I could spend more if it was necessary. My question then is can anybody who has had similar experience recommend a model which could tick the boxes above? (High comb, 15+" length of pull, over / under, 28" barrels)

I realise this is all very specific so any advice is very gratefully received!
Mike

Contact Bryan at Malmo guns if he can’t help you regarding miroku/browning no one can

 

[sako85708]

Throwing a spanner in the works, but I have always had a problem finding a gun that fits me ( thick and short neck ). 4 years ago I came across the Benelli 828u o/u. They use a shim system to adjust the stock the same as their autos in up to 40 different ways !! . Yes I know they are light and a bit lively in the shoulder as most say, and a bit like Marmite you love or hate them. Mine changed my shooting overnight and best of all they are light weight (great for walked up days), multi choke and 3" HP steel proof. They are also fitted with a recoil damper inside the stock . The Benelli might be worth a look

 

[tarponhead]

Lots of good advice here but best of all find a good gun shop and get them to help you choose a gun that fits. Ian Hodge in Cornwall is great if your near there, but go up country, if you have to and then practice. I wouldn’t ignore the newer Turkish made guns especially with adjustable stocks, if you can find one that fits. My personal favourite was an Miroku MK70, but I now shoot a Beretta 692 for everything- because I can hit stuff with it. If you go the semi-auto route you’ll spend a lot less and find lots with shims and adjustments for stock cast and length. Enjoy!

 

[mikeakc]

Lots of good advice here but best of all find a good gun shop and get them to help you choose a gun that fits. Ian Hodge in Cornwall is great if your near there, but go up country, if you have to and then practice. I wouldn’t ignore the newer Turkish made guns especially with adjustable stocks, if you can find one that fits. My personal favourite was an Miroku MK70, but I now shoot a Beretta 692 for everything- because I can hit stuff with it. If you go the semi-auto route you’ll spend a lot less and find lots with shims and adjustments for stock cast and length. Enjoy!

Thanks, yes I had considered going up to Ian Hodge and will do so on your recommendation. Ladds in Crediton are also on my visit list when I next have to go upcountry.

Thanks

 

[mikeakc]

Incidentally does anyone know whether some of the other brands do a model with a long stock and high comb?

 

[nun_hunter]

Personally I'd spend the £240 getting the silver Pigeon an adjustable comb. Set it up and get used to shooting it and if you get better and you still hate the look the sell it on. The price of the adjustable comb will add value to the shotgun as it is a desirable extra for most people.

 

[mikeakc]

Personally I'd spend the £240 getting the silver Pigeon an adjustable comb. Set it up and get used to shooting it and if you get better and you still hate the look the sell it on. The price of the adjustable comb will add value to the shotgun as it is a desirable extra for most people.

That’s an interesting idea. I will give that one some thought. Thanks

 

[Cranborne]

It might also be worth giving UK Gun Repairs in Taunton a call. They will alter a gun to fit you, and have a good stock of s/h guns. Personally, I'd stick with the Silver Pigeon; mine has had the stock bent to raise the comb and a recoil pad fitted to give 15 3/8" length of pull.

 

[HistoricBore]

My Nikko 5000 was made in 1974 and fits me well now that the standard 14.25" stock has been lengthened by half an inch. These often sell for ~£500 and are well made. The Winchester 101 is the same gun, of course. It is a good copy of the classic Browning design. barrels are usually 28" as was the fashion back then.

HB

 

[NullMac]

agree with all but this: "Do not get a stock bent, it will move back." - if done properly, with decent quality wood in the first instance, it will not. Not saying to be rude, just saying as have been there many times.

It will. Friends who have done that on quality competition guns have started missing for unexplained reasons after about 3-4 years, checked the stock dimensions and it has moved.

 

[jaffffamx8]

You might find Browning/Miroku off the shelf dimensions better for you, but theres only one way to find out.
Worth going for a proper gun fit use those dimensions as a guide for shopping, gun alteration. At least that way you have a solid base to find the right thing...whether its £200 sale rack gun or 4/5 digit price labels, you know you'll be at least looking in the right direction!