Where are we at with lead free

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Perhaps the more appropriate question is does anyone know of anyone who eats lead shot game that has had anything like myeloid leukaemia (or perhaps cancer of any sort) the lead ingestion may have been a real and sadly avoidable risk factor. Just because you don’t die of lead poisoning doesn’t mean that it has done no harm!
I know of several people who have eaten game regularly throughout their lives and gone on to suffer dementia and / or developed cancers. Knowing what we know now lead could well have been a factor, but of course nobody had asked the question, nor done the blood work.

In particular a good friend has myeloma which one day will likely switch to leukaemia. But medics have never looked at metals in the blood even though he has been shooting all his life.
 

caberslash

Well-Known Member
I know of several people who have eaten game regularly throughout their lives and gone on to suffer dementia and / or developed cancers. Knowing what we know now lead could well have been a factor, but of course nobody had asked the question, nor done the blood work.

Correlation ≠ causation

You know this.
 

NickJ

Well-Known Member
Not "needed" at all. 308 is just fine, even with copper. Pretty much everything I shoot is a Sika.

Do Fallow specialists shoot magnums? We must need 338 Lapua for Red then?

They are just a medium sized deer, nothing else. Not armour plated or anything...
With respect I'd say it depends on the pressure the herd is under plus the topography and thus the range shots are taken at.

Yes, I know of a few people on fallow who cull in large arable landscapes so use flat shooting magnums as they are often out to 300 yards.
 

308tikka

Well-Known Member
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:.

Its not the Government making the changes, its the FSA. Game dealers are only following the guidance.
Can't sell meat with a lead or any other toxic substance in it, and why would you want to?
I started neck shooting to reduce the mess, to avoid lead spoilage and to preserve the heart which I love to eat. I get lead is bad to ingest, but equally dont see the harm in eating venison lead shot in the neck.

Others dont, its fine and Im happy to sell to anyone. If they want copper shot they can have it. Not all dealers / butchers are demanding it.

Plus dont forget some customers are the petfood industry and they dont mind at all.
 

srvet

Well-Known Member
And also doesn't mean it has
You are completely correct. However, wouldn’t you rather eliminate a possible risk factor rather than suffer the consequences of it being true? After all you aren’t harmed by lead deficiency if you don’t eat it but you may be harmed in an insidious manner by ingestion of lead. In many ways it’s a bit like the anti vaxxers who die of covid but could have been saved by the vaccine
 

shakey jake

Well-Known Member
Trouble is if you avoid everything that may be harmful then you wouldn't do or eat anything and would die of boredom
i sort of get your point but with so many people using non lead rifle ammo and getting good results, shot gun seems to be a different story if you want to stretch the distance. do you actually enjoy eating things that may contain lead? its not the same as smoking or drinking.
 

shearstu

Well-Known Member
Has anyone done much testing and head and neck shooting with copper
I really don’t think for shoulder shots are the prob here copper is spot on
But the fact they don’t frangment is worrying
I know there are copper coming out which does (evo green, Neilson but that’s not really frangmenting and they yew tree which I am currently testing) but surely is is more limited than before with lead
I don’t have a prob with shoulder shooting and know should take shoots they not comfortable with but games dealers have pushed neck and head around here for years with there pricing so now they have enforced copper are they going to even that up
Hope u guys can see the point I am trying to put across not trying to be a dick
 
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srvet

Well-Known Member
Has anyone done much testing and head and neck shooting with copper
I really don’t think for shoulder shots are the prob here copper is spot on
But the fact they don’t frangment is worrying
I know there are copper coming out which does (evo green, Neilson but that’s not really frangmenting and they yew tree which I am currently testing) but surely is is more limited than before with lead
I don’t have a prob with shoulder shooting and know should take shoots they not comfortable with but games dealers have pushed neck and head around here for years with there pricing so now they have enforced copper are they going to even that up
Hope u guys can see the point I am trying to put across not trying to be a dick
I will head shoot a good proportion and use the TTSX without issues. All died immediately, Even when a shot dropped just below the brain into the pharyngeal region. There was still enough energy transferred to fracture the skill in several places. No bullet is immune to causing problems in this situation and there have been plenty of jaw shot deer with lead bullets that show this.
 

brave echo niner

Well-Known Member
Has anyone done much testing and head and neck shooting with copper
I really don’t think for shoulder shots are the prob here copper is spot on
But the fact they don’t frangment is worrying
I know there are copper coming out which does (evo green, Neilson but that’s not really frangmenting and they yew tree which I am currently testing) but surely is is more limited than before with lead
I don’t have a prob with shoulder shooting and know should take shoots they not comfortable with but games dealers have pushed neck and head around here for years with there pricing so now they have enforced copper are they going to even that up
Hope u guys can see the point I am trying to put across not trying to be a dick
I’ve been using the Barnes TTSX and have taken a good amount of head and neck shots with them, they expand very quickly and work very well for this purpose.

I have a number of pictures of the terminal effect if you are interested across a variety of shots (head included)

Ben
 

shearstu

Well-Known Member
I will head shoot a good proportion and use the TTSX without issues. All died immediately, Even when a shot dropped just below the brain into the pharyngeal region. There was still enough energy transferred to fracture the skill in several places. No bullet is immune to causing problems in this situation and there have been plenty of jaw shot deer with lead bullets that show this.
Great to hear thanks for the feed back and completely agree with the last part u wrote
Just great to hear feedback from people on head and neck shooting with copper
 

srvet

Well-Known Member
Great to hear thanks for the feed back and completely agree with the last part u wrote
Just great to hear feedback from people on head and neck shooting with copper
Whilst I remember the virtus precision bullets seem to fragment readily and would probably be a good choice for head and neck shooting. I haven’t tried them personally but based on chest shots they would be worth exploring. I should also add that the TTSX I use are the 130g 308 and the 120g 7 mm at 3000 and 3250fps respectively. I couldn’t say what would happen with a 180g TTSX at 2500fps but I wouldn’t want to try it
 

kieran222

Well-Known Member
If the AA or RAC said it would be safer, more healthy and better for the environment if we all drove at 50mph instead of 70mph on Motorways we would all voluntarily do that?
I don't think so. You only have to look at the Covid situation, if it was guidelines it was ignored by a large number of people and if it was law the same people spent most of their time trying to find a way round it.
 

TH4

Well-Known Member
i sort of get your point but with so many people using non lead rifle ammo and getting good results, shot gun seems to be a different story if you want to stretch the distance. do you actually enjoy eating things that may contain lead? its not the same as smoking or drinking.
Not got a problem eating things shot with lead. I have been doing it for 60 years with no bad effects. At least I don't think my third eye and 14 fingers are a result of lead anyway.
 
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