White Hart

[Pheasant Feeder]

Got to thinking today whilst near Hartshead moor, about the name, also the numerous pubs called the White hart.

To which species of deer does the term Hart refer and when did it fall out of common usage?

 

[perdix]

I may be wrong but looking at the pub signs the hart was a fallow buck

 

[perdix]

And I was wrong.....................

[h=1]Hart (deer)[/h]From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hunting the Hart, a picture from Turbervile, copied from La Venerie de Jaques du Fouilloux, 16th Century​

The word hart is an old alternative word for "stag" (from Old English heorot, "deer" – compare with modern Dutch hert and Swedish/Norwegian hjort, also "deer").
Specifically, the word "hart" was used of a red deer stag more than five years old. Inmedieval hunting terms, a stag in its first year was called a "calf" or "calfe", in its second a "brocket", in its third a "spayed", "spade", or "spayard", in its fourth a "staggerd" or "staggard", and in its fifth a "stag", or a "great stag".[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP] To be a "hart" was its fully mature state. A lord would want to hunt not just any deer, but a mature stag in good condition, partly for the extra meat and fat it would carry, but also for prestige. Hence a hart could be designated "a hart of grease", (a fat stag), "a hart of ten", (a stag with ten points on its antlers) or "a royal hart" (a stag which had been hunted by a royal personage).[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] A stag which was old enough to be hunted was called a "warrantable" stag.
The hart was a "beast of venery" representing the most prestigious form of hunting, as distinct from lesser "beasts of the chase", and "beasts of warren", the last of which were considered virtually as being vermin. The membership of these different classes varies somewhat, according to which period, and which writer, is being considered, but the red deer is always in the first class, the fox hardly being regarded at all.[SUP][5][/SUP] Like the fallow deer buck and the wild boar, the hart was normally sought out or "harboured" by a "limer", or bloodhound hunting on a leash, which would track it from its droppings or footprints to where it was browsing.[SUP][6][/SUP] The huntsman would then report back to his lord and the hunting party would come bringing a pack ofraches. These scent hounds would "unharbour" the hart and chase it on its hot scent until it was brought to bay.[SUP][1][/SUP]
The word hart is not now widely used, but Shakespeare makes several references (for example in Twelfth Night), punning on the homophones "hart" and "heart". The word is also used several times in The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien, when Bilbo Baggins and company pass through Mirkwood Forest. "The White Hart", a personal emblem of Richard II, and "The Red Hart" remain common English pubnames. The county Hertfordshire (along with Hertford, its county town, Hartford, its twin town in Connecticut) and the village of Hartford, near Northwich, in Cheshire) is thought to be named after a place where deer forded a watercourse. There is also the district of Hart inHampshire and the villages of Hartfield at the edge of Ashdown Forest in East Sussex and Hart Common on the outskirts ofWesthoughton, in Greater Manchester. Whinfell Forest once contained a landmark tree called Harthorn.[SUP][7][/SUP] The surnames Hart andHartley ("wood of the hart") also derive from the animal.

 

[Tommo]

Very interesting!

you learn something new every day!

T

 

[Cris]

Hm a good read.

 

[White Hart]

I may be wrong but looking at the pub signs the hart was a fallow buck

Um ermm... I was with you on that one, always led to believe it was a white fallow buck!!! How embarrassing....

 

[perdix]

The pub signs definately look more like a fallow than a mature red stag..................and that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it

 

[Tommo]

Um ermm... I was with you on that one, always led to believe it was a white fallow buck!!! How embarrassing....

Now you see-that's what I thought?!

T

 

[Cootmeurer]

The pub signs definately look more like a fallow than a mature red stag..................and that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it

Do you believe everything you see in/at a pub?

 

[jamross65]

http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/edinburgh/pubguide/images/whitehartinn-x1-225.jpg

http://www.visitscotland.com/cms-images/2x1/regions/edinburgh/white-hart-inn

im not sure if this will come out being done on the iPad, but this is the photo of the stag above the White Hart Inn, Grassmarket, Edinburgh. It looked more like a red stag than a fallow buck to me.

The White Hart Inn is thought to be the oldest Inn, in Edinburgh and was visited by Burns on his last visit to the city in 1791.

If it doesn't come up on the link, just google 'White Hart Inn Edinburgh' and under images you will see a few of the front of the pub, and the stag sits immediately above the door.

More importantly however, is that the beer they sell is very good....

 

[Timney]

I was always, probably incorrectly, led to believe it related to the distinct rump shape of the fallow which closely resembles a white h(e)art.

 

[finnbear270]

Hartford near Northwich, was within the Vale Royal, that also included the forest of Delamere, a Royal hunting preserve, a fair chunk of the forest remains, one of the lanes that pass through is called Yeld lane. some people say they have seen Munties recently.

 

[David Brown]

JR The White Hart Inn in Edinburgh's Grassmarket did have a wall mural explaining the legend of the white Red Stag. Place names all over the south of Scotland also show that in past times Red Deer were found all over the central and eastern parts where none exist today. Examples are Hart Wood Myres near Selkirk and Harts Haugh near Bonchester. There must be dozens of Harts Leaps too. David

 

[perdix]

http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/edinburgh/pubguide/images/whitehartinn-x1-225.jpg

http://www.visitscotland.com/cms-images/2x1/regions/edinburgh/white-hart-inn

im not sure if this will come out being done on the iPad, but this is the photo of the stag above the White Hart Inn, Grassmarket, Edinburgh. It looked more like a red stag than a fallow buck to me.

The White Hart Inn is thought to be the oldest Inn, in Edinburgh and was visited by Burns on his last visit to the city in 1791.

If it doesn't come up on the link, just google 'White Hart Inn Edinburgh' and under images you will see a few of the front of the pub, and the stag sits immediately above the door.

More importantly however, is that the beer they sell is very good....

Going to have to go and see that now

 

[Pheasant Feeder]

Thanks for the replies gents very informative.

 

[jamross65]

Going to have to go and see that now

He, he....

 

[Bugsy]

We have a" White Hart " hotel in sunny old Campbeltown and theres a stone carving on the outside wall with a carving of a Red Deer on it , I only found out the connection between the two a few months ago