Why Are Some Discussions Stifled / Censored?

Pete E

Well-Known Member
#1
It seems that any potentially contentious subjects that Amind don't agree with are soon censored by Admin?

This has happen again with the thread about Head Measuring at the Game Fair being locked....DG and the British CIC committee have both put them selves forward into the stalking public eye by doing what they do, but a legitimate discussion about them is quashed and locked by the Admin..

This is the same Admin team who are happy to run down BASC at every opportunity and have no qualms with negative or derogatory threads aimed at BASC or its members?

I can't help but see double standards here...
 

paul k

Well-Known Member
#2
I have always found this forum to be amongst the best for sensible contributions and moderation and would regret any change to this.

Threads ahould only be locked or pulled if there has been a breach of the rules, particularly those relating to abuse and foul language.

If members want to debate an issue they should be allowed to do so without interference from moderators unless they break the rules. Other members are adult enough to choose to view it or not according to their level of interest.

The fact that Admin don't like the subject matter or disagree with the views expressed is not a good reason to lock or pull a thread in my view and any proliferation of this is going to lose me as a contributor which would be very sad for me, ......but maybe not for others.
 

jingzy

Account Suspended
#3
mmm

I have to say that I am not a member of BASC, and I really dont care about the attitudes of some people, but, if you are going to try to tear a thread off someone it is better to have the facts and not just make a possible horrid statement about someone that is trying to be genuine and helpful.

If it is necessary, I could make a phone call to stop all this through first party.

I will give you my slant on this. I have spent a couple of days this week with Dominic in the classroom on a deer course. He strikes me as the sort of individual that is honest and helpful, and he is also very informative.

Aren't Fridays great :D
 

sikamalc

Administrator
Site Staff
#4
Gentlemen. As you will see the thread you are refering to has been unlocked. This is a descision taken by 3 of the currant management team, please note currant AS WE STILL DO NOT OWN THE SITE!! We are mearly the caretakers until the contract is signed, which is hopefully going ahead next week.

Having said that what I will say is that none of us have double standards and we take offence to such statements. We have all worked very hard to ensure that this site stays afloat and helps stalkers of all levels. Something I feel we can be justly proud of, and something that no other site has achieved, and I might add at no cost as a rule. Perhaps you may like to offer your time and help :???: and money !!!

This site is for everyone, people are entitled to their point of view (me included) We do not want or expect this site to be used as a mouth piece for other organisations, but we welcome good debate and conversation and helpful advice, and everyone makes mistakes (me included again ;) ) We will keep the thread open, PROVIDING it does not turn sour.

Thank you

Sikamalc on behalf of the Admin team
 

Pete E

Well-Known Member
#5
jingzy,

I don't know DG or the CIC Committe, nor do I know any "facts" around the issue except the scant details that have already appeared in the shooting press.

My point is not so much the rights and wrongs of this particular issue, but why was the thread locked during a discussion that was both relevant to the stalking community and did not breech any rules on abusive language or personal attacks?

In this particular case, I would again point out that both a DG and the British CIC committee have put themselves into the stalking public eye by carrying out the service they do; a paid service I might add..

I see no reason why the circumstances of this "parting of the ways" shouldn't be discussed as long as it doesn't deteriorate into personal attacks???

Regards,

Pete
 

griff

Well-Known Member
#6
I offered to invest in this site!!
offered about 3 years ago but got no reply!
would still be interested!

regards
griff

Pete,
haven't seen the thread you refer to ,but agree with you entirely,there should be no censorship of any form, only if it becomes abusive or personal should it be stopped.
Moderators should be impartial and not let their personal allegiances dictate censorship..Sorry guys but if this site is to grow then there can be no censorship, you have to be totally neutral.
 

Pete E

Well-Known Member
#7
sikamalc said:
Gentlemen. As you will see the thread you are refering to has been unlocked. This is a descision taken by 3 of the currant management team, please note currant AS WE STILL DO NOT OWN THE SITE!! We are mearly the caretakers until the contract is signed, which is hopefully going ahead next week.

Having said that what I will say is that none of us have double standards and we take offence to such statements. We have all worked very hard to ensure that this site stays afloat and helps stalkers of all levels. Something I feel we can be justly proud of, and something that no other site has achieved. Perhaps you may like to offer your time and help :???: and money !!!

This site is for everyone, people are entitled to their point of view (me included) We do not want or expect this site to be used as a mouth piece for other organisations, but we welcome good debate and conversation and helpful advice, and everyone makes mistakes (me included again ;) ) We will keep the thread open, PROVIDING it does not turn sour.

Thank you

Sikamalc on behalf of the Admin team
Sikamalc,

I'm glad you reconsidered your collective position on this...I in no way condone personal attacks /abuse nor foul language, but I do support free debate.

Yes I think this site is truly excellent and my urging for posters to be allowed free debate is so that it continues...

Regards,

Peter
 

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
#8
Right now it’s my turn, I locked the thread because I could see that it was sliding down hill towards libellous accusations against Dominic Griffiths. Now if this had happened, this site not the individuals making the comments would be held accountable for them in a court of law because the site would have been seen to validate these comments by allowing them to remain. Trust me we have two legal experts working behind the scenes making sure that we steer well clear of such mine fields.

Both Stag 1933 and 300WSM could see that the thread had come to its logical conclusion and were in an agreement with me on this matter.
Now it is rather unhelpful when members only quickly read or don’t read at all a thread and don’t try to understand the gravity of the situation before posting in a half cocked manner in reply.

This thread was politically charged and could have started another great big argument that would have carried on not only on this site but throughout the deer stalking community. Why would it? You must be asking. Well because we have certain people who on this site that are in the position to know the full facts of the matter, they are considered to be ‘higher echelon’ members of well known and well established Deer Management organisations. These people already know the answers to the questions and know of the problems and possible ‘high level’ investigations taking place. It could then be considered that they are using this site as a political platform for their collective or personal views on this matter without having to actually stick their necks out due the anonymity that sites like this provide its membership.

This site is moderated and will remain so, it does listen to its membership and relies on this input to move forward. However we consider it necessary to put down a firm hand and say enough is enough. Sometimes these decisions will puzzle the members, “why pull that? It seemed okay!” Admin have intelligence gathering resources set in place and are in the position to act upon any post before they cause offence.

We are not the mouth piece of any deer management organisation and nor will it ever be. Our strength comes from the very fact that we are independent of the Deer Worlds’ kiss and tell politics.
The very idea that we can run a non moderated site is a naive fantasy. This site would collapse into anarchy within a week, I for one have invested the greater part of my time and energies into this site over the last six months are not willing to see this happen. May I also point out that if some members would think before posting of the implications of what it is they are alluding to in that post, moderation wouldn’t be so heavy. Believe me moderators don’t want to come down heavy on anyone, why should they spend all their time ‘poop a scooping’ up after certain site members.

This site has never been so strong; its membership is up four fold on last year, its hit figures rapidly moving towards a third of a million hits per month. This is progress, this is growth, and this has been brought about by a small group of volunteers that have poured time, money and passions into the site. We expect to get the occasional knock, but the constant sniping by people who make it their hobby to question and second guess everything the Admin team do is getting very tiresome and time consuming.

If you are not prepared to give a positive along with a negative, if your only input is a moan or try to bring this site into thinly veiled political arguments well maybe you need to go away and start your own site not force your minority views on a majority lead site such as this.
 

Duncs

Well-Known Member
#9
Having read constant moans about censorship....it is a free world, free sight and people that don't like the way the admin team work are "free" to leave. In my humble opinon I would rather see topics blocked than loose the site all together. Again lets thank the team, rather than continuaously jump on them for doing there best.
 

joelewis1971

Well-Known Member
#10
I have to say i have thought long and hard about posting this as i don't want to inflame this.

But i have to say i think it is fair that admin lock a thred while they workout what is going on

It's them that carry the can at the end of the day if it all go's pear shaped

I understand passions run high at times. But i for one have had to learn to think before i post just as i had to learn think about the shot i was about to take when i started shooting, restraint is sometimes the best policy

At least that's what my wife tells me.......LoL ':oops:'


Regards

Joe





:oops: :oops:
 

griffshrek

Well-Known Member
#11
I know that there is more to running this site than most of us realise, but as others have said we are adults and less restraint on our free speech (as long as not insulting abusive etc) should be allowed.

To take the liability side away from the SD site I am willing to sign a waiver /get out clause stating the SD are not responsible for anything I say , its down to me . Or every time you log in you re-sign a waiver.

Good luck to all that are buying into the site hope all goes well and smoothly …………neil
 

jingzy

Account Suspended
#12
well said

well said Beowolf.
I am sure the majority of members are thankful for your time and I believe it was a wise decision that you took. :)

J
 

Andy L

Well-Known Member
#13
"This is progress, this is growth, and this has been brought about by a small group of volunteers that have poured time, money and passions into the site. "
Not to mention the dozens of people that regularly post on the site and spend a great deal of time on the site as well!
 

snowstorm

Well-Known Member
#15
One of the big benefits of the site to me is the lack of flame wars, personal attacks and public criticism.

This forum is not a democracy, its a private enterprise facilitated discussion in someone's front room. If they set rules to be here I'll abide by them.

I can exercise my limited rights to free speech and argue with people elsewhere, and often do. I come here so I can't!

I'm happy to have threads pulled to keep it that way.

After all, I might be called a member, but in reality I'm a guest of the owners!

I might add, it's very easy to set up a discussion forum like this - there are lots of free scripts you can use. What's hard is keeping it in the right place, that takes hands on work from the owners.

If you neglect it the trolls and drongos quickly invade.

The 'interference' from admin is exactly what keeps it in the right place.
 

legaleagle69

Well-Known Member
#16
Umm ... well I also pondered whether to add anything to this discussion.

Imho I think all things being equal it is a very fairly run site, however ..

always a however isn't there these days :lol:

I am used to running projects and have autonomy over my section of the project or I do not get involved, when I make a decision it is often on the wing based on the information to hand when I make that decision I may be right or I might be wrong .. and believe you me I am not ashamed to say I make mistakes I am human I do err
Here is the however.. when the decision is made it is made I never appologise for the decision as when I made it it was on my judgement not anyone elses I may consult others but I ultimately make the jugement and from then on it's my way or the highway.

If you keep changing direction or trying to please all the people all the time you are on the highway to knowhere... sorry to be blunt but there are always going to those who will make mischief for mischiefs sake.

So guys I empathise with your position, in these situations all you can do is go with your gut, the advice I would give is that you do not take these things personally, assign one moderator to each section, his word is law and that is that ;)
 

Rob Mac

Well-Known Member
#17
Admin

Afternoon

Moderating this, or any other site is a very difficult, time consuming and thankless task.

Most people who visit this site will not be aware of the hours of hard work it takes to make a site like this work and the dedication of those involved to ensure this remains the best stalking site in the UK.

What I found when moderating this site, was that the contributors who took the most offence at their threads being pulled, often (not always) had a different agenda to the rest of us.

So to Mr.B, Malcolm and the rest of the new management team - hats off to you. I've seen the latest site statistics, and the visitor figures just keep going up and up, so I don't need any more convincing the site is heading in exactly the right direction with a team of people who have deer wefare and stalking firmly at the heart of their agenda.

Cheers,

Rob
 

Beowulf

Well-Known Member
#18
Thank you for your support Snowstorm and others,

We have to have rules and guidelines in everything we do, to allow so called free speech means that someone will always have more freedom than others; it’s the law of the jungle.
I want to be open and frank with my fellow stalkers, I have no hidden agendas or axes to grind; I want to learn and help others and if that means that some rules are in place to facilitate this, well that's how it is.

Right now I'm sick to the heart with this bickering, snipping and covert usurping. Whatever happened to the idea of deer management on this site?

My time is spent reading and answering pm's, emails and phone calls when I would dearly love to be outside watching the deer or fixing my highseats. Four hours of this morning was spent politely answering idiotic pm's about how unfair this site can be to certain members. I ask you, how unfair is it to waste the leisure time of someone who is only trying to provide a free and educational service? Every moan, whine or petulant out burst takes time to resolve, it robs me of time that I could spend doing good work on this site or the March and Shoot, it keeps me off my land permission and stops me from writing the articles that I dearly love to write.

So to those advocates of freedom of speech and democracy I say to you, you only want those things for yourself and in protesting so loudly you are in fact denying others that basic right. This site is all about deer not yourself importance, it’s all about training up new stalkers, it’s not about the titles bestowed on you by dusty old organisations and back slapping cliques. Go and have a good look in the mirror and ask yourself one simple question. "When did I last do anything that wasn't driven by my own selfishness?"

The admin team will carry on running things based on the support of the majority members, they will not bend to the over bearing individual protestations of a few, but grow with guidance of its loyal membership.

I have spoken to many SD members by phone and admire their passion and drive for a better site, it strengthens my resolve and benefits this great site, long may it continue.

For the loyal and patient majority of site members I can promise you only one thing and that is that I with the help of yourselves and the admin team will strive to advance this site and make it not just a hunting website but a foundation and home for likeminded individuals willing to share knowledge and experiences. Here you will not pay through the nose or have to be expected to curry favour to be accepted, no dodgy hands shakes, no funny dress codes. Just bring an open mind and the open hand of friendship.

My sincere thanks
Steve Faulkner, site admin and novice deer stalker.
 

Pete E

Well-Known Member
#19
Beowulf said:
Right now it’s my turn, I locked the thread because I could see that it was sliding down hill towards libellous accusations against Dominic Griffiths.
Ah, the gift of seeing into the future :rolleyes: Why don't you lock all threads if you don't trust the members to discuss things constructively?? I mean "just in case":rolleyes: Actually the thread in question continued in a very civilized manner with some interesting points about measuring being brought out...


Beowulf said:
Now it is rather unhelpful when members only quickly read or don’t read at all a thread and don’t try to understand the gravity of the situation before posting in a half cocked manner in reply.
Those pesky members again, eh? We really make your job difficult!

Beowulf said:
It could then be considered that they are using this site as a political platform for their collective or personal views on this matter without having to actually stick their necks out due the anonymity that sites like this provide its membership.
Can't have unauthorished collective or personal views of a member posted, can we... :rolleyes:

Beowulf said:
If you are not prepared to give a positive along with a negative, if your only input is a moan or try to bring this site into thinly veiled political arguments well maybe you need to go away and start your own site not force your minority views on a majority lead site such as this.
Championing "Free speech" and and objecting to control freaks has nothing to do with politics, rather its down to *principles*
 

Pete E

Well-Known Member
#20
Beowulf said:
My time is spent reading and answering pm's, emails and phone calls when I would dearly love to be outside watching the deer or fixing my highseats. Four hours of this morning was spent politely answering idiotic pm's about how unfair this site can be to certain members. I ask you, how unfair is it to waste the leisure time of someone who is only trying to provide a free and educational service? Every moan, whine or petulant out burst takes time to resolve, it robs me of time that I could spend doing good work on this site or the March and Shoot, it keeps me off my land permission and stops me from writing the articles that I dearly love to write.
Don't worry, just stick a claim in for the overtime when the advertising revenue rolls in!! :lol: :lol:

Beowulf said:
So to those advocates of freedom of speech and democracy I say to you, you only want those things for yourself and in protesting so loudly you are in fact denying others that basic right.
Only certain Admins are denying free speech; and it is they who are guilty of double standard more than most...Just look who are the most vocal bashers of the BASC and BDS and there training; but its ok to so that because, well your Mods...

Makes me wonder if its not away of positioning things ready for the launch of your new training initiatives???

Anyway, as you rightly said in an earlier post, its your site and if a member doesn't like the way it run, they can always leave..

Good luck for the future and I hope things go well for the site and the members, but its not for me...
 

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