Wild Salmon Day - 1st June

[tarponhead]

It’s wild salmon day, today, apparently - I wish there were more wild salmon to celebrate with, but we all know how that happened. I haven’t killed a salmon in 10 years and not caught or seen many either, since, so those of you that can still access some, cherish them.
Oh, and it’s St. Justin Martyr’s day as well. Not sure if he had a view on salmon, in 2nd Century Rome… martyred for using a spinner in a fly-only stretch maybe.

 

[sillbeam]

"but we all know how that happened."
I don't, can you enlighten me please?

 

[tarponhead]

First UDN fungal disease then fish farming near major salmon river estuaries from which wild sticks have never recovered. All that cheap salmon that gets thrown away in Supermarkets is the major culprit. I think farming is good when it helps stocks of wild fish e.g.bass but salmon farming has been an ecological disaster for the British Isles.

 

[Jelen]

Oh, and it’s St. Justin Martyr’s day as well. Not sure if he had a view on salmon, in 2nd Century Rome… martyred for using a spinner in a fly-only stretch maybe.

 

[Basil H]

Fish farming actually hits the stocks of small fish elsewhere in the world. e.g. inshore/artisanal fisheries on the West African coast are in decline as their stocks are being fished out to provide for countries as far away as Turkey and Norway.

 

[sillbeam]

First UDN fungal disease then fish farming near major salmon river estuaries from which wild sticks have never recovered. All that cheap salmon that gets thrown away in Supermarkets is the major culprit. I think farming is good when it helps stocks of wild fish e.g.bass but salmon farming has been an ecological disaster for the British Isles.

I'm unaware of salmon farms near any of the main, east coast salmon rivers...Spey,Dee,Tay or Tweed.

 

[Quixote]

I'm unaware of salmon farms near any of the main, east coast salmon rivers...Spey,Dee,Tay or Tweed.

They don't necessarily need to be nearby to cause massive issues. Salmon farming is a bloody appalling industry, and it beggars belief why the UK government haven't put an end to it in it's entirety. The majority of coastal fish farms are Norwegian owned, but they point blank refuse to have them in their coastal waters and instead farm them inland. Something like 9 tonnes of antibiotics was used in the last year alone, but despite this 25% losses are accepted In the 50's the wild salmon population was around 10 million, now it's less than a quarter of that and still declining. Netting was banned completely in '92, and yet the species is still in decline. And it's primarily due to the hideous effects of intensive fish farming. I love salmon, but I refuse to buy it any longer and eat trout instead.

(Sorry, went off on a bit of a rant there )

 

[Essexsussex]

I agree fish farming is hideous but no doubt other factors are also at play - we don’t know the numbers of salmon taken at sea by large commercial fishing operations, there is a loss of spawning habitat on many rivers and finally, when a salmon made it half way up the river to relative safety and a very high chance of spawning, we as rod and line anglers did have a habit of killing them.

All of these added together, they don’t have a lot of chance.

 

[WW.]

They don't necessarily need to be nearby to cause massive issues. Salmon farming is a bloody appalling industry, and it beggars belief why the UK government haven't put an end to it in it's entirety. The majority of coastal fish farms are Norwegian owned, but they point blank refuse to have them in their coastal waters and instead farm them inland. Something like 9 tonnes of antibiotics was used in the last year alone, but despite this 25% losses are accepted In the 50's the wild salmon population was around 10 million, now it's less than a quarter of that and still declining. Netting was banned completely in '92, and yet the species is still in decline. And it's primarily due to the hideous effects of intensive fish farming. I love salmon, but I refuse to buy it any longer and eat trout instead.

(Sorry, went off on a bit of a rant there )

Probably worth working out antibiotic use per kg of meat produced to get a better idea of it. Indoor, disease free, systems are possible and coming. They did it in the middle east.

I back you on the trout, usually done much better.

The other unmentioned issue is netting at sea- some of the nets are 12 miles long and salmon are bycatch. Other nation states mentioned in conversation yesterday regarding this.

 

[Quixote]

Probably worth working out antibiotic use per kg of meat produced to get a better idea of it.

I think last year the figure was around 200000kg, so 0.045g/kg. Not a huge dose I guess, but still 9 tonnes of unnecessary sh*te. Then factor in the impact on other species to feed them, the culling of hundreds of thousands of wrasse used as cleaner fish (and the impact their loss has on other ecosystems), the waste from the fish themselves and it's impact on local water ph, etc. It's a truly hideous industry, and the more I find out about it the worse it becomes

 

[WW.]

I think last year the figure was around 200000kg, so 0.045g/kg. Not a huge dose I guess, but still 9 tonnes of unnecessary sh*te. Then factor in the impact on other species to feed them, the culling of hundreds of thousands of wrasse used as cleaner fish (and the impact their loss has on other ecosystems), the waste from the fish themselves and it's impact on local water ph, etc. It's a truly hideous industry, and the more I find out about it the worse it becomes

200 tons? I'd have thought there was a lot more than that... Do you mean tons not kg?

For reference, one of the commonly used antibiotics is dosed at 75mg/kg daily for minimum 8 days (IIRC) to be effective. So a course of treatment would be 0.6g per kg of fish.

Massively oversimplified but hopefully interesting.

I think land based systems are required plus solving the feed sourcing issue.

 

[Quixote]

200 tons? I'd have thought there was a lot more than that... Do you mean tons not kg?

For reference, one of the commonly used antibiotics is dosed at 75mg/kg daily for minimum 8 days (IIRC) to be effective. So a course of treatment would be 0.6g per kg of fish.

Massively oversimplified but hopefully interesting.

I think land based systems are required plus solving the feed sourcing issue.

Sorry. Typed kg but meant tonnes

 

[angusb1]

If land based systems get going I might go back to eating salmon. At the moment I just can't enjoy it knowing the harm farmed salmon does.

 

[WW.]

If land based systems get going I might go back to eating salmon. At the moment I just can't enjoy it knowing the harm farmed salmon does.

Give it time. Food issue still needs work though. Although I have some ideas on that.

 

[Freeforester]

I'm unaware of salmon farms near any of the main, east coast salmon rivers...Spey,Dee,Tay or Tweed.

I recommend you read the research work results by PD Malloch tackle dealers, Perth, who were tagging and looking into the movement of salmon and sea trout smolts as they left the rivers well over 120 years ago. The ‘wheel’ has been reinvented several times since.

 

[sillbeam]

I'm interested in the true, factual effectiveness of catch and release with salmon angling.
As they don't eat when they enter a river course, all the energy they have is needed to reach the headwaters to spawn.
I had an interesting conversation with a 'scientist' a while ago, and I asked him "if he trained for the London marathon and half way round, someone jumped from the crowd and fought him to exhaustion, would he be confident on being able to complete the marathon?"....he couldn't answer.
If conservation is the prime reason for catch and release, should we be fishing for salmon at all ? ..of course we should, because there's money involved

 

[tarponhead]

I'm interested in the true, factual effectiveness of catch and release with salmon angling.
As they don't eat when they enter a river course, all the energy they have is needed to reach the headwaters to spawn.
I had an interesting conversation with a 'scientist' a while ago, and I asked him "if he trained for the London marathon and half way round, someone jumped from the crowd and fought him to exhaustion, would he be confident on being able to complete the marathon?"....he couldn't answer.
If conservation is the prime reason for catch and release, should we be fishing for salmon at all ? ..of course we should, because there's money involved

As a lifelong game angler I have to agree - I don’t fish for them anymore in rivers where they are scarce. Its great to see them from time to time, but they deserve our help not our efforts to catch them.

 

[tarponhead]

I take a similar view in bluefin tuna showing up on the coast of Cornwall. I’m very happy to fish for tuna off Africa and the US but they only just came back to UK waters and off we go, after them. I still fish so I’m not innocent but restraint means I take what I can eat only. Otherwise it’s like fox in a hen coop - killing just because I can. Talking of which, I have some foxes to after…

 

[Mr Tree]

I have heard that the salmon run this year is the best in ages. I was told that the Trawlers were stopped fishing for them??

 

[Essexsussex]

I take a similar view in bluefin tuna showing up on the coast of Cornwall. I’m very happy to fish for tuna off Africa and the US but they only just came back to UK waters and off we go, after them. I still fish so I’m not innocent but restraint means I take what I can eat only. Otherwise it’s like fox in a hen coop - killing just because I can. Talking of which, I have some foxes to after…

They are eating all my bass, and the mackerel I use to catch them…!