Will she steady down?

PointBlank

Well-Known Member
I've just had another outing tonight where I spent 3 hours solid correcting my GSP bitch for walking ahead and leaning on the jaeger lead. She is 22 months and still as hyper as ever. She will sit under a high seat no problem but for some reason she stubbornly will keep pushing it when on the jaeger lead, even though she definitely knows what she is supposed to do! She starts off perfectly at heel then gets further and further forward until I have to correct her and it is back to the start again and then start creeping forward etc etc.

Is she still too young and will steady down of her own accord? I have considered getting her hip scored and unless she gets a near perfect score having her spayed to see if that makes a difference.
 

308rws

Well-Known Member
PointBlank

My GWP is now 36 months old and only beginning to steady where I want him to heel, as opposed to where he wants to be ... so hold your nerve and persevere.

.308
 

PointBlank

Well-Known Member
PointBlank

My GWP is now 36 months old and only beginning to steady where I want him to heel, as opposed to where he wants to be ... so hold your nerve and persevere.

.308

Cheers mate, I don't know if that makes me feel better or worse :)

It is the one stumbling block that makes her a little bit of a hinderance to take out stalking but I am persevering nonetheless :thumb:
 

sinbad

Well-Known Member
my gwp is better off the lead than on it, he will heel without any trouble at all, but put him on a lead and he has to pull, Ive tried every trick in the book but he justs keep creeping forward when on a leash!!
Paul
 

PointBlank

Well-Known Member
my gwp is better off the lead than on it, he will heel without any trouble at all, but put him on a lead and he has to pull, Ive tried every trick in the book but he justs keep creeping forward when on a leash!!
Paul

We have tried every trick as well and we have got her good on the normal leash when out for a walk but as soon as we are out stalking she starts pulling again. I think it is a lot to do with the excitement of it and she wants to be hunting everything, another thing is when you try to slow down and creep around the corner she is desperate to look around it first.
I take her out everytime but sometimes I think should I leave her back home as I'd probably have more chance of getting on the deer!
 

Paul 600

Well-Known Member
Kevin, my wire would do the same if I let him. It's excitement! Make sure he heels and only advance when he's in the correct position! You can also tire him out prior to stalking with him! Not very practical but makes training easier.
 

6pointer

Well-Known Member
There is no trick to heal work just consistent training and correction. I use my small stick and if the dog try,s to pass it gets a very quick whip with the word,s heal. It doesn't take long before the dog realises that there is a line that it must not pass. Were you put that line is up to you behind along side or slightly ahead (The one i prefer). Good luck with the dog and make sure the training is consistent with what you want don't settle for half way or you will end up with a half trained dog.
 

PointBlank

Well-Known Member
Kevin, my wire would do the same if I let him. It's excitement! Make sure he heels and only advance when he's in the correct position! You can also tire him out prior to stalking with him! Not very practical but makes training easier.

I wish there was a way to tire her out! She could go for a ten mile walk and still come back bouncing like tigger.

Like I said we are nearly there with the heal on the lead, it's just a problem when out stalking. To give her credit she is good most of the time but guaranteed she will be a pain at the most awkward time.
 
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PointBlank

Well-Known Member
There is no trick to heal work just consistent training and correction. I use my small stick and if the dog try,s to pass it gets a very quick whip with the word,s heal. It doesn't take long before the dog realises that there is a line that it must not pass. Were you put that line is up to you behind along side or slightly ahead (The one i prefer). Good luck with the dog and make sure the training is consistent with what you want don't settle for half way or you will end up with a half trained dog.

This is what we have done in the past but she is pretty stubborn and doesn't take her long to "forget" where she should be.
 

countrryboy

Well-Known Member
I'd say u want to go back to basics and get it right before u take it stalking again, no fun for u or dog and just teaching it bad habits.

The adapting a slip lead to a halter does work with very determined pullers, (only thing that worked for my wire and worst puller i've ever had), althou on 'normal' dogs so does either turning 180 everytime dog goes in froont or waving a stick infront of its nose as 6p mentioned, i wave the stick all the time like a pendulum so dog can see it in front and walks into it. Just keep at it and be 100% consistant, no good letting her away with it some of the time and not others. the instant she creeps 1 inch forward u have to be on her then, no good letting her creep and creep and then give her a row. If u do that she's not sure where heel is is? is it level?, 1 ft forward? or 11/2 ft ? Has to be instant so no doubt in her head
Also mind and praise her when in right place (even odd treats possibly) bt make sure it is in the exact right place or ur praising bad behaviour. Walking slower and walking in zig zags (or constantly change speed and direction) basically so dog has to concentrate harder, really go back to pupppy training

Perhaps taking her walking in woods more often (albeit without rifle) might densenitise her to ur stalking gear so she's less excited (althou the rifle will probably then become the trigger)
Does the dog walk well on a normal lead but not on ur stalking/jeagger lead? Perhaps dog has learned it won't get told off or direction changed when in stalking mode so can take the p**s with no fear off a row (as ur busy stalking and don't want a noise) Also most dogs are bloody clever and know as soon as u are not concentrating 100% on them and will push things a bit to see wot they can get away with and keep pushing

Hpr's are not the easiest dogs to train to heel at times, but possibly ur timing/or commands are out and she thinks heel is something else or she may just not respect u (dominat) so is just taking the p**s.
A 1-1 lesson/help of a decent trainer or pro could probably give/show u a few tricks to sort this out pretty quickly as they can see u both and read the ody lanuage.Be well worth it as otherwise u will have the next 10 years stalking with her pulling like a train
 
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PointBlank

Well-Known Member
That's excellent advice countryboy :thumb:

We have been using the techniques like you say for a while, I am hoping we get there but we have just gone backwards a bit and was venting my spleen after a bad outing last night. We are hard on her normally but like you say she knows she can push it when I'm out stalking as I can't make much fuss.

if I could control the excitement of going out it would be most of the problem solved.
 

countrryboy

Well-Known Member
If it's only stalking (or u get her under control normally) mibee go to ur ground a few times as normal with rifle/full kit but use it as purely a training exercise and concentrate 100% on her, althou will mean u wasting a few visits thou but worth it in the end
 

6pointer

Well-Known Member
PB Take her stalking but be willing to lose the chance at a beast in place of good training. Like CB says it doesn't take long before a dog know,s he can push the limits because you don't want to upset your stalk. I take my young dogs stalking and if they break the rules they get a sharp shock no matter if i am starting an outing or if i am on a beast. It is not long before the dog is working with you on a stalk and not against you.
 

308rws

Well-Known Member
I found that teaching the dog to sit at my side as soon as I set my sticks up prevented the dog getting too much lead (mainly to protect his hearing from my rifle report). As I usually use my sticks to support my binos when scanning I am always using my sticks, therefore the dog is always close to my side. Having him close makes it easier to make finer adjustments to where he is in relation to me. I'm right handed so my dog's place is with his right hip by my left leg. Whilst he may have better peripheral vision than me, I know he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head. But, he now knows that sticks up means sit and pay attention. As I mentioned, it has taken me a while to bring this all together. Remember you know he's under training and development, but he will always think's he's out hunting. So you're the intelligent one in the partnership and you have to think that the dog is always in training. Sometimes you will loose the opportunity of a shot, but I believe better that than to leave your HPR in the car - that's not training. Patience and perseverence.
Good luck.
 

dirtdigger

Well-Known Member
as your dog starts to get passed the line of where you want them to walk to heel just lean down and with 2 fingers give a sharp tug on the bit of skin just in front of their back leg (its a bit like the bit between your thumb and index finger ) its seems a bit cruel and they will yelp and snap at you but they soon get the messageShift+R improves the quality of this image. Shift+A improves the quality of all images on this page.
 

countrryboy

Well-Known Member
PB Just a quick 1

Wot is the 'Jeagger lead' u talk about and how/wot have u trained dog to do while wearing it.

I'm guessing the jeagger lead is a type of collar/harrness (or brand) and if u have done some proper tracking training u would put the jeagger on first as a sign it's the start off the track. It will all depend how u have trained ur dog.
Possibly if ur putting it on when u go stalking (and not purely for tracking) the dog is confused and ur giving out mixed messages, ie u want he dog to walk to heel but the fact ur putting its tracking collar on tells the dog u want it to track

If u haven't used it as a 'tracking signal' and use it purely as a lead u should be using it to walk ur dog away from stalking all the time to get the dog used to it. Possibly the dog does not associate the same heel position while wearing the different collar?

If u have used it as a tracking collar u should be stalking with only a slip lead/no lead ideally and only put the collar on when its actually time to track. That might account for why its excited and not behaving as a dog that really knows its heel shouldn't really take that much correcting
Althou all depends on how u have trained ur dog
 

PointBlank

Well-Known Member
PB Just a quick 1

Wot is the 'Jeagger lead' u talk about and how/wot have u trained dog to do while wearing it.

I'm guessing the jeagger lead is a type of collar/harrness (or brand) and if u have done some proper tracking training u would put the jeagger on first as a sign it's the start off the track. It will all depend how u have trained ur dog.
Possibly if ur putting it on when u go stalking (and not purely for tracking) the dog is confused and ur giving out mixed messages, ie u want he dog to walk to heel but the fact ur putting its tracking collar on tells the dog u want it to track

If u haven't used it as a 'tracking signal' and use it purely as a lead u should be using it to walk ur dog away from stalking all the time to get the dog used to it. Possibly the dog does not associate the same heel position while wearing the different collar?

If u have used it as a tracking collar u should be stalking with only a slip lead/no lead ideally and only put the collar on when its actually time to track. That might account for why its excited and not behaving as a dog that really knows its heel shouldn't really take that much correcting
Althou all depends on how u have trained ur dog

The jaeger lead is an over the shoulder leash so you have both hands free.
 

countrryboy

Well-Known Member
But wot/how have u trained the dog to walk in it. Have u done any training walking ur dog round streets etc or just put it on while stalking

I'm assuming u havent done any 'scent' training using the lead to control the dog.

If not i would walk the dog all the time on the jeagger lead possibly also with ur slip lead on aswell so it knows they both have the same heel position and really go back to basic puppy training getting heel and sit 100% right instantly, it possibly associates the different lead with different things esp if only used for stalking and also with gettin away with things

Be well worth taking the time to get ur dog to walk to heel properly off the lead will make life a lot easier, even if it means gettin a hand off someone on here or a pro trainer
 

PointBlank

Well-Known Member
But wot/how have u trained the dog to walk in it. Have u done any training walking ur dog round streets etc or just put it on while stalking

I'm assuming u havent done any 'scent' training using the lead to control the dog.

If not i would walk the dog all the time on the jeagger lead possibly also with ur slip lead on aswell so it knows they both have the same heel position and really go back to basic puppy training getting heel and sit 100% right instantly, it possibly associates the different lead with different things esp if only used for stalking and also with gettin away with things

Be well worth taking the time to get ur dog to walk to heel properly off the lead will make life a lot easier, even if it means gettin a hand off someone on here or a pro trainer

I have done a bit of scent training with her but I use an extra wide collar everytime I do it, when I am stalking she has a small collar and when out "walkies" or retrieving training we just use a slip lead. She will walk to heel off the lead but is tensed up waiting for be allowed to charge off, that is why I hope she will just calm down as she is over enthusiastic with everything she does.
 
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