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legaleagle69

Well-Known Member
Sounds very much like the German Jager? type training, might work but folk are quite fickle creatures, if it was made an interesting experience it may well have a chance.
Only problem I foresee is that most people have limited leisure time and often only want to go out on rifle related outings, and would not be so keen on mediocre tasks.
 

Wingers243

Well-Known Member
Sounds great. Provided qualified stalkers are paid in accordance with what amounts to a professional qualification ~ and there's no reason they shouldn't be. Bring it on. I'll be on the first flight north from Stansted!

Reminds me very closely of a professional training scheme, you only forgot the life long learning requirement for attendance at courses etc to keep up to date with development over time.
 

Wingers243

Well-Known Member
Apologies, I miunderstood (but I would say it would work on the basis of paid professional stalkers.

If there's enough qualified stalkers for the amount of ground involved and a sufficient level of communication and organisation it would work on a pro - bono basis. Your suggestion doesn't seem wholly dis-similar to a stalking and training scheme that I have read about else where.
 

Jagare

Well-Known Member
To manage the UK's wild deer population you need a national deer management plan. Can't see that happening.

A thing that always worries me when these idea's are put forward is where do these trainers come from in the first place.

Iv'e taken out a couple of DSC2 holders who will never be deer managers all the time they have a hole in there arse. I remember taking out a St Hubert club instructor stalking many years ago. Don't like to think what he was teaching would be stalkers.

What next HND, BSc in deer management before someone can go deer stalking.
 

jingzy

Well-Known Member
I would suggest that 300wsm has taken the majority of his ideas from the MOD.

Jagare - you already have a deer management plan as it is FC that is being talked about. It is in season, it has a mouth - cull. :lol:

J
 

jingzy

Well-Known Member
Sorry 300wsm, but I dont think this would work. Although the concept is good I feel it has faults and where would the initial money come from to rent the ground?

No Deer to be culled unless the person pulling the trigger has DSC1.
You cannot access FC ground now unless you have DSC 2.

The period a manager will be mentored for will depend on his knowledge experience, willingness to learn and interest in the less glamorous jobs of managing deer.

Who makes the decision on what constitutes knowledge and experience?

Once at least 3 years has passed and the manager demonstrates he can take out 3 separate Deer Management trainers, guide and instruct them as he would a novice then they to can become a trainer.

Who and what qualifies a person to be the initial trainers? 3 years is a long time if many outings are being taken. Surely if the person has come through the ranks with the mentors and trainers, then they should not have to prove themselves as they have already been taught to the Trainers standards.

Once A Trainer has done the Deer Managers Course then they can be asked to co-ordinate an area or forest for deer management, writting the cull plan etc.
Now you are really sticking your neck out, it is apparent on other topics that many members on this forum dont recognise the DSC 2, but to throw fuel onto the fire and mention the Deer Managers Course.

A reasonable idea, but would require I think local administration, ie large syndicates set up around the country.

J
 

wadashot

Well-Known Member
I think it`s a crackpot idea to be honest :eek: .

I don`t like the idea that just because you haven`t got your level 1 or 2, you are deemed suitable only to be a trainee, some of the more experienced stalkers have got nothing :rolleyes:

Not only that, this is way beyond what is required to stalk on FC ground anyway, it currently being, level 2 min, with a skills test to do before shooting commences, oh, and to have a modertor fitted, I know, i have culled for them :confused:

Is this an idea of your`s 300wsm, or someone elses?
Isn`t it hard enough to get onto ground as it is without making even more regulations. :rolleyes:

wadas
 
D

Davie

Guest
IT MIGHT WORK BUT HEY PIGS MIGHT FLY. I would suggest that this idea was got from 300 wsm,s favourite author :lol:
You see greed will always win over common sense . Just like trying to get a FC lease was it about your knowledge ability locality or how many times you could visit the ground . No it was about how much cash you could hand over and what back handers you gave same as always. Sorry to seem so cynical to the new lads but most that have put in for FC leases will agree they were lets say slightly corrupt :lol:
Far better on Government ground in my opinion to have a set rate per acre eg £1 - £1.50 and leased out to the group of men that are most likely to do a first rate job . Monitor them over the first two or three season then if they are what they said give them a longer contract if not get a new set in.
 

snowstorm

Well-Known Member
300, you'd said initally

"Aim

To manage the UK's wild deer population using trained and experienced personnel.
To do this humanely and keep deer numbers to a sustainable level such that they are in balance with the environment. "

and then at the end :

"Do you think this kind of idea could work for example on the FC scotland leases."

If it's a UK wide idea for all land then no - that would include my own land, and I don't want to watch deer destroying my trees without being able to do anything about it myself unless I went through all you describe or allow others on there who were qualified to shoot them. Under some circumstances the DCS can order their people onto your land to shoot you deer without your consent as it is, and that's a huge bone of contention. This would make that occurence the norm rather than the exception.

If on the other hand it's FC scotland only, then probably not, as it sounds too onerous and recreational stalkers at least might go elsewhere - it's applying a 'professional' model to what for many is a non-professional activity.

If the government want to do this with what they own then fine, but it's too centralised and erodes the rights of land/shooting owners if it's applied to all deer stalking in the UK.
 

wadashot

Well-Known Member
300wsm said:
You do not need DSC 2 to stalk on FC ground

As from this year you do as level 2s need to be completed in 2008 so as far as that is concerned minimum level 2 is required.

What about a comment on who`s idea this is and why do you think a level 1 or 2 is necessarily more experienced than someone who hasn`t got this.?

Just a fair comment requiring a fair answer. :rolleyes:

wadas
 

Duncs

Well-Known Member
And why not only allow people born and bred in scotland to take the lease!!! Well that seems to be the next step to protecting the stalking!! And I have my level 2, but i still think it a great shame to go down the "paper is proof."
 

wadashot

Well-Known Member
To be a lease holder or in a syndicate you will have have level 2 by the end of this year.

The people that you talk about, BASC stalking schemes, saint huberts or Commission clients are taken out with level 2 mentors or forestry commission rangers.

You will not get a new lease this year without level 2 and anyone stalking within that lease will need to have completed their level 2s.

I cannot for the life of me see why anyone would want to make stalking even more harder to get into with these hair brained ideas. Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt but we need deregulation instead of more regulation.

I am all for proper deer management done in line with health and safety.

This is not my idea of UTOPIA. Sorry.

wadas
 
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