Young person getting a shotgun certificate

woodmaster

Well-Known Member
Yes it is going to get expensive, I will probably have to buy a days shooting to reciprocate in one hit.
It may well be the case that the generous offer of a few days is totally without expectation of a reciprocal offer. Some people just want to encourage the next generation. I'd suggest your lad offer to do a few days beating as a show of appreciation. No money need be involved.
 

25 Sharps

Well-Known Member
Pedro is correct. Assuming you have a cert yourself, the best thing is probably for the lad to get his own SG cert. You buy on your ticket a gun which is suitable for him to use. It will be legally your gun but he can borrow it for 72 hours and shoot it as long as he is supervised by a responsible person over the age of 21 at all times (not even sure whether that person has to be a cert holder). You can then drop him off at the shoot with your gun and provided he has a mentor with him he can carry and shoot the gun without you being there.
When he turns 15 you can gift the gun to him and transfer to it to his ticket and it becomes his property. You have to declare it on both tickets as a gift. He then possesses his own gun. He can carry and shoot it unattended, but he can't buy his own ammunition or buy other guns himself.
When he is 18 he can buy other guns himself and buy his own ammunition.

Why would the vendor declare anything on their own ticket? There is no column for disposal
 

Scapegoat

Well-Known Member
There are none so blind that will not see
.....or those that will not see from the stats that the public ownership of firearms in England and Wales has
1. Remained more or less constant for the last 10 years, with over half a million certificate holders
2. That up to March 2019 there was a three year gradual increase in the number of certificate holders in England and Wales
3. That between March 2019 to 2020 there were just under 27,000 new applications for shotgun and firearms certificates, 97% of which were granted.
4. That the number of revocations of firearms certificates decreased in that same period.

So let's break this down. You state that every FEO is under instruction to reduce civilian gun ownership.

I'll start with the most basic premise. A Firearms Enquiry Officer is not a decision-maker. They do not set policy. They do not have any legal say in what sort of firearms can be owned. Their job is to carry out enquiries and report their findings to their head of department, the Firearms Licensing Manager.

The Firearms Licensing Manager reports directly to the Head Of Firearms Licensing. They must follow clearly laid out force policy, which in turn is determined by the public safety strategy set by the Chief Constable. That strategy can be found in the annual policing plan, which in turn is subject to scrutiny by the National Police Chiefs Council. That Plan must adhere to guidelines in the National College of Policing, basically a database of resources and legal requirements to ensure any strategies or policies are legal and contribute to public confidence. As a back stop, all policing plans and strategies will involve local consultation and legal scrutiny from the Office of the Force Solicitor.

You tell us that there is a drive to reduce civilian ownership. If that is the case how long has this been happening? The stats show that the number of certificates held have remained more or less the same for the last ten years, which in itself kind of shows that if there was such a policy, it's failed.

From 2016 to 2019 there was an annual INCREASE in the number of certificates granted. So not only has your imaginary policy failed, it's actually failed spectacularly.

If Forces were under pressure to reduce ownership, surely they would have refused more that a scant 3% of applications? That 97% of 27,000 represents a massive number of opportunities missed don't you think?!?!?

Revocations of firearms certificates are the next huge chance to reduce ownership, and yet the 43 forces in E&W only revoked 371 certificates between them in a 12 month period! So even if there's an even spread between the 43 forces, each one has only revoked 8.6 certificates each. That's pretty poor performance in terms of your fantasy policy.
 

Cranhill

Well-Known Member
That is not the case at all.
Your posting what you think happens which bears no resemblance to real life.
In other words, a load of bollocks!

Wow that woke everybody up!

My comments are based my experience dealing with various Police forces (4no) over 38yrs, plus comments / quotes from serving / retired police officers (COP) and home office civil servants plus data (current and historical) available on the web.
 

Cranhill

Well-Known Member
You can start by researching the 1922 Parliamentary Commission in Civilian Gun ownership follow events in Ireland and London then follow that with the various comments / reviews by IoC / COP / Home Office from then till the present day.
 
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Chris J

Well-Known Member
No, the report is 20 years old. I have a book about the Romans, but it doesn't make it 2000 years old.

Like I said, a fascinating read really. Good history lesson. The main take-away really is the comment that says not much else will really happen until the next atrocity. However, what history shows us is that atrocities are really good for triggering changes that had nothing to do with the actual cause of the atrocity. So when and if one does happen, what will the powers actually target next?
 

Cranhill

Well-Known Member
No, the report is 20 years old. I have a book about the Romans, but it doesn't make it 2000 years old.

Like I said, a fascinating read really. Good history lesson. The main take-away really is the comment that says not much else will really happen until the next atrocity. However, what history shows us is that atrocities are really good for triggering changes that had nothing to do with the actual cause of the atrocity. So when and if one does happen, what will the powers actually target next?
Sorry I was referring the link to Hansel info
 

rabbitter

Well-Known Member
Ian
I don't see the relevance of the Youtube video?
Sorry for slow response. I was referring to the way you phrased your point "I don't know were got that from but are a FEO not a friend and under instructors from the Chef Constable reduce civilian gun ownership along with every other Chief Constabulary in the UK"

I read it a few times and got the general gist, but had to smile when I thought about our 'Chef Constable' dishing out 'instructors'. Anyhow, when one of my friends has a snarlyupwording we refer back to the classic Maxwell adverts.

From the discussion afterwards, I see you had a more serious point to make although I don't actually agree with it. Neither I nor any of my shooting companions have been discouraged from firearm ownership and I have lived in a couple of different areas. West Mercia in particular have been incredibly helpful over the last ten years or so. I'll see how it goes now with the next generation.

All in fun.

kind regards


Ian
 
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