Ziegler Kontra claw mount
- Thread starter Hotdog
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bewsher500
Well-Known Member
In my personal opinion it is a very traditional mounting system that am sure does the job but there are better ones out there
Ziegler tried to improve the original design to counteract recoil side effects
I personally think Apel, Leupold and others make better designs and better constructed mounts for quick release scopes
the Suhler/Zeigler style mounts were often totally custom made and soldered bases would be fitted with hand made uppers. this makes using multi scopes on one rifle or one scope on two rifles very difficult
not sure zeiglers are like this now though
depends on what you want it for
traditional looking quick release driven game rifle
or
trulyfunctionall return to zero quick release scope?
Ziegler tried to improve the original design to counteract recoil side effects
I personally think Apel, Leupold and others make better designs and better constructed mounts for quick release scopes
the Suhler/Zeigler style mounts were often totally custom made and soldered bases would be fitted with hand made uppers. this makes using multi scopes on one rifle or one scope on two rifles very difficult
not sure zeiglers are like this now though
depends on what you want it for
traditional looking quick release driven game rifle
or
trulyfunctionall return to zero quick release scope?
My 2p worth. I have shot a number of rifles with well fitted claw mounts one of vintage before 1918 and one of 1960s make plus a couple more. In all cases they have been of acceptable accuracy for stalking.
I also use, but don't like, Redfield "Turn In" mounts on one of my rifles. I don't like them because they put all the strain on the front of the 'scope and also they look 'clunky"...I think they are awful...BUT....
I also think that Apel "Turn In" mounts are no more nor less than expensive versions of Redfield "Turn In" and I personally don't like Apel mounts and don't think that they are, compared to the Redfield "Turn In" value for money at all.
If you want claw mounts try Alan Rhone in the UK. If you are going the "Turn In" route I'd simply (as now the adjustment for windage is on the 'scope with the reticle still centred) buy a set of Redfield mounts!
I also use, but don't like, Redfield "Turn In" mounts on one of my rifles. I don't like them because they put all the strain on the front of the 'scope and also they look 'clunky"...I think they are awful...BUT....
I also think that Apel "Turn In" mounts are no more nor less than expensive versions of Redfield "Turn In" and I personally don't like Apel mounts and don't think that they are, compared to the Redfield "Turn In" value for money at all.
If you want claw mounts try Alan Rhone in the UK. If you are going the "Turn In" route I'd simply (as now the adjustment for windage is on the 'scope with the reticle still centred) buy a set of Redfield mounts!
Hales Smut
Well-Known Member
There is a huge diffrence between the Ziegler Contra claw hook mount and the traditional claw hook mount. The traditional is up to the gunsmith. A man that knwos his job gives a good mount otherwise it's crap. I had one and it was perfect. The contra claw hook has to be installed on the pre drilled holes in the action. You do not depend a lot on the gunsmiths skills. I had a contra mount made by Otto Bock ( identical to the Ziegler) and it was perfect. Certainly a lot more professional than the Leupold Quick release that I have now. For me a good mount, in wich I have confidence. Still easy if you want to use the open sights. It wil be the one I go to if I ever need a quick release mount.
8x57
Distinguished Member
Irwin at Alan Rhone's is definitely the man to speak to. He is a genuine gunsmith and not just a gun mechanic. He fitted Ziegler mounts to my Chapuis, I don't think that you can get better mounts or better service than I received there.
I agree, the traditional SEM is the way to go if you have a good gunsmith to install them and especially if you are using a good mauser action with a beautiful crest on the front receiver bridge, then stick it on the barrel using a SEM saddle.
if you have any other action or your mauser action is drilled and tapped, then use the ziegler contra/zp mount
swingmounts, IMHO, put way too much stress on the scope laterally.
if you have any other action or your mauser action is drilled and tapped, then use the ziegler contra/zp mount
swingmounts, IMHO, put way too much stress on the scope laterally.
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
The Ziegler contra mount is just a way to get a scope with a large objective bell end!! to be removable and still sit low enough to the gun.
All the loads on the standard suhler claw mount is taken up by the front claws and not the clip at the rear.
This leads me to question the strength of the Ziegler. So if there is a 1000 shot test available on Zieglers web page perhaps that can prove I am wrong as I am using my simple engineering knowledge to question it.
I discussed this with a toolmaker I knew who had done the Austrian Ferlach gunsmiths waffentechniker course and he said that fitting the claws is extrmely complex and takes a lot of final fitting time hence the high price for two small bits of steel.
Martin
All the loads on the standard suhler claw mount is taken up by the front claws and not the clip at the rear.
This leads me to question the strength of the Ziegler. So if there is a 1000 shot test available on Zieglers web page perhaps that can prove I am wrong as I am using my simple engineering knowledge to question it.
I discussed this with a toolmaker I knew who had done the Austrian Ferlach gunsmiths waffentechniker course and he said that fitting the claws is extrmely complex and takes a lot of final fitting time hence the high price for two small bits of steel.
Martin
Hales Smut
Well-Known Member
The SEM ( Suhler Einhakmontage ) needs indeed a very skilled craftsman. It's in fact soldered to the gun/rifle. On drillings and combination guns it's possible to make the front foot level with the rib. This way you could still use it as a shotgun. On bolt action the front foot is in front of the action and the front ring is mostly on the objective. This to have an as low as possible mounted scope. A true piece of art if done properly and the price is at the same level.
The Contra Einhakmontage is still very low and never gave me trouble. On some rifles you may have to remove the bolt in order to be possible to remove the scope.
The Contra Einhakmontage is still very low and never gave me trouble. On some rifles you may have to remove the bolt in order to be possible to remove the scope.
Krabryn
Well-Known Member
Like 8x57 I have been very impressed by Erwin Peumans' background gunsmith training in his native Belgium, several years in the US and now in the UK.
He has fitted Ziegler mounts to my Tikka T3 in 308 for a Z6i and to a Sauer 7mm RM for an Aimpoint 9000 Series RedSpot. Originally developed by an F1 Racing engineer, the tolerances are extremely tight but as you'd expect to underpin their 'off on no change of zero' claim. There is a selection of different ring heights I recall in 2 mm intervals, as my need to slightly raise the Z6i to accommodate an objective clip-on night vision system demands
http://www.nightvisiongear.co.uk/Night-Vision-Rifle-Scopes-ATN-PS22-Universal-Sight.htm
Cheers, K
He has fitted Ziegler mounts to my Tikka T3 in 308 for a Z6i and to a Sauer 7mm RM for an Aimpoint 9000 Series RedSpot. Originally developed by an F1 Racing engineer, the tolerances are extremely tight but as you'd expect to underpin their 'off on no change of zero' claim. There is a selection of different ring heights I recall in 2 mm intervals, as my need to slightly raise the Z6i to accommodate an objective clip-on night vision system demands
http://www.nightvisiongear.co.uk/Night-Vision-Rifle-Scopes-ATN-PS22-Universal-Sight.htm
Cheers, K
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
is that not the reason there are so many large objective bell mounted scopes?
moves the pivot to the fat bit
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