.44 suitable
- Thread starter mrhim
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Jagare
Well-Known Member
If your a cowboy I'm sure they are just the job. But if your a hunter then get a proper round .270 or above and leave your Stetson at home. Or in answer to your question NO.
8x57
Distinguished Member
mrhim you mentioned .44 cowboy loads in your original post.
I'm just wondering if you are you aware that a typical .44 load for cowboy action shooting would be a 240 grn bullet at approximately 850 fps. Such a load would only produce a miserable 385 ft/lb of energy well short of a typical .44 magnum load.
I'm just wondering if you are you aware that a typical .44 load for cowboy action shooting would be a 240 grn bullet at approximately 850 fps. Such a load would only produce a miserable 385 ft/lb of energy well short of a typical .44 magnum load.
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Not even close to a good choice of round. As has been said, despatching caged/wounded sure but for specifically hunting them no.
I know in America they shoot their feral
pigs with allsorts, even .223, but from a British (and European) standpoint it's a terrible choice.
Even at full magnum loads out of a rifle a .44 Magnum only matches a .243 Win. Now some Brits shoot stalked boar with a .243 but they're the exception. If I had to use a .243 or a hot loaded 44 Magnum I'd be reaching for the lever gun but, given the choice, would want something with a bit more thump.
In my opinion approx 2500 ft-lbs is a good guideline and I'd personally like heavier bullets.
I suggest you spend a little more time researching cartridges.
I know in America they shoot their feral
pigs with allsorts, even .223, but from a British (and European) standpoint it's a terrible choice.
Even at full magnum loads out of a rifle a .44 Magnum only matches a .243 Win. Now some Brits shoot stalked boar with a .243 but they're the exception. If I had to use a .243 or a hot loaded 44 Magnum I'd be reaching for the lever gun but, given the choice, would want something with a bit more thump.
In my opinion approx 2500 ft-lbs is a good guideline and I'd personally like heavier bullets.
I suggest you spend a little more time researching cartridges.
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
I'd disagree. As long as it is capable of penetrating to the vital parts and killing then it is suitable. On any game. Boar or deer.
Too much nonsense is written about "power" of calibres and just the very sort of nonsense that came haf a century ago from the arseholes in the BDS that got 6.5x54MS and the .300 Sherwood banned for use on deer.
Is it suitable? Well I'd raher say that it is adequate, yes provided it is able to penetrate. Not all wild boar are huge. Some are small. Is it optimum? Definitely not.
The old blackpowder .400 and .450 calibre rifles all were getting considerably MORE velocity than any .44 Magnum or many .444 Marlin would ever be able to achieve. Neither come close to those performance figures.
However it would be worth posing the question to MUIR and SOUTHERN whose American input will be based on a broader knowledge of field use of the .44 Magnum. It may be adequate but that doesn't mean that it is optimum. A .375 Winchester would be better.
Too much nonsense is written about "power" of calibres and just the very sort of nonsense that came haf a century ago from the arseholes in the BDS that got 6.5x54MS and the .300 Sherwood banned for use on deer.
Is it suitable? Well I'd raher say that it is adequate, yes provided it is able to penetrate. Not all wild boar are huge. Some are small. Is it optimum? Definitely not.
The old blackpowder .400 and .450 calibre rifles all were getting considerably MORE velocity than any .44 Magnum or many .444 Marlin would ever be able to achieve. Neither come close to those performance figures.
However it would be worth posing the question to MUIR and SOUTHERN whose American input will be based on a broader knowledge of field use of the .44 Magnum. It may be adequate but that doesn't mean that it is optimum. A .375 Winchester would be better.
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8x57
Distinguished Member
Then they are .44 magnum loads and not cowboy loads.
I take it then that you are loading or intend loading RNFP bullets to magnum velocities. If so then yes they may just do the job at short range but not the most suitable round for the job. As Jagare said put your cowboy gun aside and use a proper rifle for the job. Yes you may have adequate or even more than adequate bullet diameter but you will still only be sending them on their way with the equivalent initial energy of a .243win.
As a friend of mine who shoots a lot of boar is apt to say "when things go wrong not if things go wrong" when referring to shooting boar with inadequate rifle/ load combinations. Put simply use enough gun for the job and keep you pistol calibre carbines for gallery rifle shooting.
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Jagare
Well-Known Member
When hunting boar you want to be armed so you will be able to shoot the largest boar that roams the forest. True you may only shoot a 40 kg boar but i'm allways armed ready for that 150kg boar or 700kg moose thats going to cross my path. Leave the .44mag for when you are reinacting Custers last stand.
You're welcome.
A couple things to clarify:
1. ANY round will kill most anything in the right circumstances. As I said feral pigs fall to 223, wild boar fall to 243 and elephant have fallen to 7x57 (among others), however, in my opinion you should have enough for if it goes wrong, not if it goes right. To each their own on that though.
2. A 'cowboy' load is a colloquial term for loads used in Cowboy Action Shooting. These are reduced power/recoil loads so the firearm can be used faster in timed events. They are not suitable for hunting and your use of 'cowboy' is what caused the confusion.
I must admit though, I prefer the bigger bore rifles so can see your motivation. I also like lever guns so may I suggest 45-70 or .444 Marlin?
They will easily do for boar, bullet availability is easier in .458" for the 45-70 in my experience.
The problem with big bores though is trajectory. For 100 yards and a bit over they'll be fine but if longer shots are a possibility (and you aren't willing to pass them up) consider 6.5x55 to be the minimum and work from there.
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
I once put 4 .44 special rounds into the neck of a wounded boar due to a lot of beaters standing all around it and before I was really up to speed on all the organ locations in my early days of hunting them and it still need a rifle round to finish it off.
Martin
Martin
BearStalker
Well-Known Member
IMHO, I have hunted Wild Boar, in Germany, and at 30 meters, with an 8X57 180 GR PS, was not able to get an exit wound on a 50kg Boar. That being said, if the fps and energy delivery are within legal limits, .44 Magnum would more than do the job. You don't need a hole big enough to drive a bus through to kill a Wild Boar; you can do it with an arrow. The thing to remember is you don't want to shoot them any further away than 30 - 40 meters.
atb
Grant
atb
Grant
You cannot compare the paper foot-pounds of energy of a .243 and a .44 Magnum. The real world effect on a boar or large deer inside 50 yards is night and day.
I know a good number of hunters who use a .44 Magnum carbine or handgun to hunt hogs, because they use dogs to track, chase and corner them, and have to have something light weight that is out of their hands or can be shifted from hand to hand as they move through the woods and brush. And they don't want the bullet going through the hog into a dog or richocheting off a rock. They will try for a head-on shot. A friend of mine, now deceased, used a semi-auto Ruger .44 Carbine to great effect.
I carry a .30-30, and a .357 revolver if the woods are thick. If things are more open, I carry a .444 Marlin or a bolt action carbine. When hunting with a bow and arrow, I carry a .357 for backup or dispatch. A friend, who had a very close call with a large, German blood boar trampling him and ripping up his coat while he was trying to get in a shot with his .44 revolver, started carrying a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington.
Another friend and hunting partner, who is a Cowboy Action Shooter, uses his .45 Colt 1892 and Ruger Vaquero, and has taken a good number of large feral hogs - but again, up close. And he is totally comfortable with both firearms in all kinds of firing, left and right handed. When the woods are open, or he is hunting from a stand, he uses his M1 Garand.
If you are hunting in the woods, but not shooting a cornered and angry boat at five yards, get a .444 Marlin. It delivers the impact and has the reach for 100+ yard shots. In the 22-inch barrel rifle, it is handy enough to sling on your back or weave through the woods to get into position for game on the move, as pigs often are.
I know a good number of hunters who use a .44 Magnum carbine or handgun to hunt hogs, because they use dogs to track, chase and corner them, and have to have something light weight that is out of their hands or can be shifted from hand to hand as they move through the woods and brush. And they don't want the bullet going through the hog into a dog or richocheting off a rock. They will try for a head-on shot. A friend of mine, now deceased, used a semi-auto Ruger .44 Carbine to great effect.
I carry a .30-30, and a .357 revolver if the woods are thick. If things are more open, I carry a .444 Marlin or a bolt action carbine. When hunting with a bow and arrow, I carry a .357 for backup or dispatch. A friend, who had a very close call with a large, German blood boar trampling him and ripping up his coat while he was trying to get in a shot with his .44 revolver, started carrying a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington.
Another friend and hunting partner, who is a Cowboy Action Shooter, uses his .45 Colt 1892 and Ruger Vaquero, and has taken a good number of large feral hogs - but again, up close. And he is totally comfortable with both firearms in all kinds of firing, left and right handed. When the woods are open, or he is hunting from a stand, he uses his M1 Garand.
If you are hunting in the woods, but not shooting a cornered and angry boat at five yards, get a .444 Marlin. It delivers the impact and has the reach for 100+ yard shots. In the 22-inch barrel rifle, it is handy enough to sling on your back or weave through the woods to get into position for game on the move, as pigs often are.
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Five, six, years ago I bought a job lot of the old Pachmayr swing off mounts of eBay. Amingst them was one for Ruger's .44 Magnum semi-auto carbine. I still have it somewhere packed away. Not the recent one...but the one from the 1960s.
That .44 Ruger is quite a woods rifle.
I don't want to give the impression that the .44 Magnum or .45 Colt are head shot cartridges. Out of a rifle, they have a lot more velocity, energy, and most importantly, momentum, than from a handgun. My friends who use them on boar depend on shot placement into the heart and lungs, trying to avoid the thick gristle shield the boars have. That is why I would not use a light and fast .223, .243 or carbon arrow - because then things go less-than-perfect, I want a heavier bullet or arrow that will not flatten out or break up or be deflected by glancing the shield. A 240-gr .44 or 250-gr .45 caliber bullet, a .30-30, .444, or wooden arrow with two-blade head will penetrate, retain weight, break bones, and create huge hemorrhage and shock.
I don't want to give the impression that the .44 Magnum or .45 Colt are head shot cartridges. Out of a rifle, they have a lot more velocity, energy, and most importantly, momentum, than from a handgun. My friends who use them on boar depend on shot placement into the heart and lungs, trying to avoid the thick gristle shield the boars have. That is why I would not use a light and fast .223, .243 or carbon arrow - because then things go less-than-perfect, I want a heavier bullet or arrow that will not flatten out or break up or be deflected by glancing the shield. A 240-gr .44 or 250-gr .45 caliber bullet, a .30-30, .444, or wooden arrow with two-blade head will penetrate, retain weight, break bones, and create huge hemorrhage and shock.
I stand corrected. I was told that the term cowboy load was for a flat headed round as when loading into a Marlin rifle if the rounds were pointed there was a risk of striking the round in front in the tube.
But point taken, something with more penetration and distance is probably better for the bigger beasts!
But point taken, something with more penetration and distance is probably better for the bigger beasts!
I wasn't aware that .300 Sherwood was ever considered much of a deer cartridge - I thought it was more of a mini-target-rifle or maxi-rook-rifle round.
Also, having considerd buying one a few years ago, I thought that 6.5x54MS was able to meet UK stalking requirements; although in Scotland with heavy bullets and/or short barrels it would probably fail the minimum MV requirement.
Don't get me wrong, a 45-70 will provide all the penetration you would ever need but yes trajectory isn't the best compared to faster rounds.
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