Real Quality of rifle scopes

[ChesterP]

Agree with a lot that has been said, and old eyes do negate the need for top end optics. Paul and I did a comparative test which is documented on here between 4 pretty top end scopes and the results were an eye opener.

Without doubt the best scope I have is my Diavari. I rate my Delta Titanium very highly but if you are looking for value for money esp S/H then Meopta has to be the choice. The Vortex I have looked through are also very good. My Mark 4 Leupold is not as good as the Diavari but then again is 50 mm re 56mm.

I think customer service has a lot to play. Without doubt Swarvi is streets ahead of everybody. Zeiss is Ok and I had a Meopta replaced a scope FOC when the illumination control failed. Vortex lifetime guarantee.

I think when you are paying £1+k then its all about what suits your eyes and customer service is a big consideration. Some of the older Jap scopes eg Tasco Titan and original Hako (JOC) are very good.

D

That test was rather a surprise Dave, in terms of just how far decent optics have come!

However, the real difference between mid and top end isn't quite as easy to pin down as some say. Are some more expensive based on marketing decisions on about brand image and customer service/ warranty? Yes, without a doubt.

However, you do tend to get what you pay for, even if the price doesn't reflect clear differences in optical performance, and even if where it does, the premium is hefty. One area often not acknowledged amongst stalkers, but widely considered by LR shooters is in build quality pertaining to repeat-ability of dialling (results), quality of adjustments, ruggedness and resistance to recoil.

Don't be fooled by claims that as many rets are laser etched these days, recoil resistance is irrelevant, it's not, as other mechanical construction considerations come into play. The erector tube build, design and overall quality are usually very markedly different between entry level and high end scopes, and mid range scopes can either have excellent optics or excellent mechanicals, but rarely both, as this costs money. The Delta Titanium is a good example of excellent optics wrapped up in lower-mid-end mechanicals, at least where the windage and elevation controls are concerned (the paralax and IR adjustments are excellent).

I shoot LR pretty regularly as well as stalk, and my scopes are all compromises as I cannot afford the latest and greatest for each discipline, so I have compromised and my scopes are pretty heavy for stalking, but I get good use out of them for that and vermin control. Few scopes tick all the boxes once you need a do-it-all tool for the job. I have settled on Nightforce and Bushnell's top of the range DMR offerings as they come closer than most for my needs at reasonable cost and have a decent zoom range and in the case of the Bushnell, excellent FOV. For serious LR shooting, I'd love a top end Zeiss or S&B but can't justify the £3K plus that would cost me. For stalking, it's a completely different matter. I would happily settle for the Delta Titanium as the only stalking (and driven Boar) scope that I'd ever need as I rarely use the adjustments for most of my sub 100m shots on deer in the woodland environment that I shoot over. It would be that or I'd pay the extra for a good used Swaro as the life time warranty is transferable.

 

[caorach]

However, you do tend to get what you pay for, even if the price doesn't reflect clear differences in optical performance, and even if where it does, the premium is hefty.

I think this is a key point. I've done some casual looking at "2nd rate" optics and in practical terms my view was that they could shoot deer until I'd decide it was no longer wise to shoot them and so they are more than adequate for my purposes. However the big name brands do buy you other "stuff" such as second hand value and customer service and so on. Different people will value that differently and this is why different people buy different scopes. The other side to this, however, is that if you go to Zeiss and buy the best glass then your scope is over specified for any stalking I can imagine anyone doing, or if you buy Swaro for their customer service you might want to consider that you could get 4 second tier type scopes for the same money and just throw any that break into the bin.

It also seems to me that modern scopes are sufficiently good that the manufacturer need only sell one scope to each person with a rifle and it would do them a lifetime and this isn't a good business model. So scope "features" have become fashion accessories and you have to replace the scope, that they assured you was the ultimate stalking machine only a year previously, with the new model in order that you might be able to shoot a deer. Sufficient people fall for this to give us a reasonable turnover in second hand scopes and, in my view, this is the place to get maximum value for money. I've never required variable magnification as my needs are simple and so, about 10 years ago, I bought a 2nd hand S&B 8X56 for £250. Quality engineering and glass at reasonable money and it is still worth at least what I paid for it. In my view of all the options quality second hand fixed mag scopes just can't be beaten.

 

[JockStalk]

I've had fixed, variable and illuminated. Fine reticles, thick reticles, illuminated dots, fancy-ass pre calibrated drop reticles. 1.7-24x mag. Objectives from 40mm to 56mm. Cheapo Chinese knock-off to Swarovski.

For stalking, after having played with all the above, I still think you need nothing more than a reasonably good manufacturer and 6x42 or 7x50 or 8x56 scope.

Funnily enough, that's exactly what the guy I learned the ropes from told me when I started.

Its just taken me a while to go all round the houses and agree with him.

All the other bells and whistles have some elements of benefit, but often with some elements of downside as well.

Variable? More to break/ drift/ go wrong/ heavier.

Illuminated? Batteries.

Mega tube/ objective? Weight penalty.

So, for stalking, you need nothing more than a reasonably good manufacturer and 6x42 or 7x50 or 8x56 scope. I'd include any of Leupold, Meopta, S&B, Swaro, Zeiss, Docter, Vortex and I'm sure many others.

Anything more than that is bought for 'other' reasons, and we've all got lots of them!

 

[ChesterP]

...Anything more than that is bought for 'other' reasons, and we've all got lots of them!

That's all very true and whilst few would argue that all that's needed to take a deer is say a 6 x 42, some of the "other reasons" still are valid to the people making their individual choices, and Vive La difference! I can see where identifying an animal can be made easier off sticks with a higher mag or variable mag, and where a high zoom range allows at the lower end for an excellent FOV for woodland stalking too.

I can also see that the argument to keep things light is a perfectly reasonable one, but there are some decent 25 and 30mm tubed scopes with a reasonable mag range (3 to 12 or 2.5 to 15 etc) that aren't actually that much heavier and not really much of a handicap, plus most decent makes rarely go wrong. They've been making scopes a long time now and whilst you get the odd lemon, most are pretty reliable an rugged, designed for the job.

I'd rather hunt down the lightest mod in compensation than compromise my scope choice, plus I value a little extra mass with the .308 anyway. All up, 8.5 lbs to 9.5 lbs might be a pretty good target for most people in some of the "thumpier" calibres. Mine is a fair bit heavier at 12 lbs all in but I've got used to it and eat a lot of spinach! For those with poorer eyesight, perhaps a slightly higher mag or illuminated ret are welcome features and batteries can regularly tested and replaced as necessary. The unnecessary features as far as I'm concerned on a stalking scope are things like zero-stop, built in rangefinders, heavy target turrets and the like.

 

[mchughcb]

Looking the latest Minox scopes as well. Great value for the money, and decent warranties

Recently bought a zx5i. 1-5x24 I will post a video of it later. For the price its great value.