Remmington 700 v Howa 1500

[Scotty99]

Hi,

There are some good points very well made on this thread and both Remmy 700s and Howa 1500s are good solid capable rifles. I have a Remmy 700 and I have fired a number of Howas in different calibres and configurations on the range. For a foxing rifle both will do the job well, come in a number of suitable calibres and both have a number of after market add ons.

My Remmy 700 is the VSSF II which they discontinued a few years ago. It has a 26 inch heavy Varmint Stainless Fluted barrel. It's fitted with a Predator mod, it has the H&S Precision stock which came as standard on this model. It has been fitted with a Jewell trigger. I bought it second hand in this configuration. It's in .223 and it is extremely accurate. Yes it is heavy, but I tend to use this rifle as my "sitting out for foxes" rifle when I am calling them in. It's not a rifle for walking around with or lamping from a truck.

You need to think what you want from the rifle and how you are going to use it for foxes, walking around, sitting out, lamping from a truck, or all of the above. Then decide which calibre and what barrel weight and length. If you are going to use it for deer as well a foxes you might want a lighter rifle in a slightly heavier calibre.

I would look at the second hand market if you go for a Remmy to see what upgrades have been done to it already. If you go for a Howa look at the new complete packages that some dealers like Highland Outdoors do they include scope, mod , bipod and offer a number of different calibres and barrel configurations.

 

[Dazza9t9]

Thank you for that. Again more things to think about.

The rifle will be .243 as that’s what’s on my ticket. It will mainly be used for foxes, later down the line I’m hoping to dip my toe in stalking.
As for what it will be used for, well a little bit of everything from sitting them out, to walking, I cannot see me shooting from a truck but that could change.

I did want the Varmint barrel however some valid points made, a sporter maybe a better option.
inwill definitely be looking at the second hand market, I’ll start keeping my eyes open now and getting out and handling both rifles

again thank you all. And keep coming with infomation

how about the actions and internals, I did read some where that the Howa has better quality internals and the Japanese barrels on them where better than the remmy stuff, I’m hoping this is not the case as at the moment I am developing a real soft spot for the remmy

 

[alberta boy]

Like a lot of the previous posters , I've had both and still have a 700 . They're both solid rifles and I'd be hard pressed to choose between them . As others have suggested , go out a see which fits you better . The Remington 700 has the advantage in after market parts , so if you're looking to customize your rifle at some point , it would be my choice . If you're looking for an all round rifle , again , as has been mentioned , I'd stay away from a bull barrel . I've been down that road , packing a heavy rifle gets old quickly . If you're predominately shooting predators at long range , a heavy barrel might be more useful , but not by much . In short , either rifle will do what you need , find which one feels better in your hands , put some decent glass on it and you're good . Definitely look at used rifles , you don't need to spend a fortune for a decent rig . The deer don't care how new and whizzy your rifle is . Good luck and keep us posted .

AB

 

[HappyHunter]

Haven't much experience of Remington so can't comment there but have shot plenty of Howa's as well as owning one. Plenty of choice in terms of barrel weights and stocks as well as plenty about second hand. All I've used have been accurate and reliable.

In in reality it doesn't appear either will be a bad choice. Just make sure you think about you're intended application and get hands on before purchasing and you'll be fine.

 

[Sharp Pointy Thing]

It may be worth considering Bergara too. They're a Remington 700 copy that are meant to be very good.

Yep good rifles. As for the trigger it is a bit heavy as standard so may be worth changing out

 

[danban]

I have had 2 howas now. The second a .243 from brock and Norris. The trigger was modified by them and it's awesome.
If you buy a howa from them they will tune the trigger. It was also accuracy tested and came with a target.
It's 3 shots on a thumbnail at 100.

 

[ejg]

I had three howas and several Rem700. The Howa action is slightly heavier than the Rem action ~ 60 grams. The Howa was a huge hype a few years back and custom builders jumped on them. One of the main advantages of the Howa was that the trigger then was very good and could be tuned to being great. The built in recoil lug is a bonus, especially if one changes barrels. My first Howa was ultra accurate in 22-250 but had massive problems with the stainless bolt galling to the stainless action. This problem was known by some custom builders and it was mentioned to use a bolt from the blued model in the stainless action. After this experience and a 308 that shot OK but not very good I moved back to Rem & Tikka T3. Also the then fad had gone by and one just could not sell a Howa second hand, not even a custom barrelled new one. Virtually had to give them away with huge losses.

edi

 

[kennyc]

I had three howas and several Rem700. The Howa action is slightly heavier than the Rem action ~ 60 grams. The Howa was a huge hype a few years back and custom builders jumped on them. One of the main advantages of the Howa was that the trigger then was very good and could be tuned to being great. The built in recoil lug is a bonus, especially if one changes barrels. My first Howa was ultra accurate in 22-250 but had massive problems with the stainless bolt galling to the stainless action. This problem was known by some custom builders and it was mentioned to use a bolt from the blued model in the stainless action. After this experience and a 308 that shot OK but not very good I moved back to Rem & Tikka T3. Also the then fad had gone by and one just could not sell a Howa second hand, not even a custom barrelled new one. Virtually had to give them away with huge losses.

edi

I've heard of the stainless bolts galling although I have never experienced it myself, a quick google would suggest its not a "Howa thing " as such, more a problem with stainless steel, lubrication would appear to be the cure, as to the resale value of Howa's, I wish I could buy one that someone had made a huge loss on but considering the historically low new price of them I suspect no-one has really taken a bath on the resale value

 

[ejg]

I've heard of the stainless bolts galling although I have never experienced it myself, a quick google would suggest its not a "Howa thing " as such, more a problem with stainless steel, lubrication would appear to be the cure, as to the resale value of Howa's, I wish I could buy one that someone had made a huge loss on but considering the historically low new price of them I suspect no-one has really taken a bath on the resale value

As I said I had with the problem only with one, the others seemed fine. I remember a few years back when Howa was the rage that we discussed the galling issue in Nurnberg with a few custom rifle builders. Remmy for example had carbon steel running on stainless as far as I know and less problems. Of course a good lube is on all my lugs. Like to use a sticky grease that contains Teflon. So wet here there is no fear of dust. Just ask boat builders what they think of stainless running on stainless, bad news. Some action builders refuse to make stainless actions because of that.
I do notice a revival of the Howa rifles and more talk about them again. We had made a stock for them years ago and things went so slow the mould vanished in the back of a shelf.
edi

 

[takbok]

I think that often the custom action builders will make sure that the bolt and receiver are heat treated to different hardnesses (about 4 HRC harder on the bolt?) to prevent galling, even if they're both made of the same material (Cro moly -4140, 4340?). As mentioned above some will use 416 Stainless for the receiver and cro moly for the bolt for the same reason.

 

[Precision123]

Howa make a better 700 than Remington.

Webley and Scott make a better 700 than Howa.

They're owned by the same company, just different price points.

I use a Bergara, which is another 700 clone.

 

[User00033]

Howa make a better 700 than Remington.

Webley and Scott make a better 700 than Howa.

They're owned by the same company, just different price points.

I use a Bergara, which is another 700 clone.

Eh? Howa makes a 700? They’re owned by the same company? Crikey. Its only 11:40am here, pub closing time with you... but can I have a pint of whatever you’ve just had please?

(If you’re a bit confused, look up the Howa Machinery Company and follow your nose from there. Then, look up Remington. See if you can join the dots, if you can then its time for bed!)

 

[Rory]

Howa make a better 700 than Remington.

Webley and Scott make a better 700 than Howa.

They're owned by the same company, just different price points.

I use a Bergara, which is another 700 clone.

I did not know that - looks like Legacy owns Lithgow too... (scroll down for the brands at the bottom)
Webley Legacy Sports International

 

[Dazza9t9]

Howa make a better 700 than Remington.

Webley and Scott make a better 700 than Howa.

They're owned by the same company, just different price points.

I use a Bergara, which is another 700 clone.

ok I have to admit.. this has totally confused me now!

Who makes what?

 

[User00033]

Righto

Howa Machinery Company of Japan manufactures barreled actions in three sizes, the mini, short and long action. Their rifle products are mostly branded Howa, but under different agency agreements they also manufacture under the Weatherby, Smith & Wesson, Mossberg and Webley & Scott brands. Of these, Weatherby are probably the most common. The W&S Empire mentioned above is simply a Howa with a nicer bolt handle and flashy walnut stock.

Legacy Sports is not Howa. They are the largest agent that deals in Howa products, looking after mostly the North American market. You fellas in the UK get your rifles through Highland Outdoor.

None of the above has got anything remotely to do with Remington, or the number 700. If that’s what Precsion123 was suggesting, which is how it reads, then he’s lost his plot. Hopefully this post will help him find it!

 

[Laurie]

Howa make a better 700 than Remington.

Webley and Scott make a better 700 than Howa.

They're owned by the same company, just different price points.

I use a Bergara, which is another 700 clone.

Where did you get those 'facts'. Remington Arms is owned by Cerberus Capital Management. Howa is part of a major Japanese manufacturing conglomerate and has no links to Remington or Cerberus, nor has it ever had.

The Howa / Smith & Wesson / Mossberg 1500, Weatherby Vanguard plus now it seems the Webley & Scott Empire Rifle barrelled actions are all Howa products, in fact different grades of a single product. They are made and sold as barrelled actions in various versions, calibres, barrel weights / lengths and their purchasers choose and procure a variety of stocks to give a large range of models. Foremost amongst them is the US importer Legacy Sports International. ('Our' Howas are all LSI procured and stocked, Highland Outdoors Limited being a secondary purchaser.)

The Howa 1500 action is not a Remington 700 copy or clone. It actually has more Sako L series features than Remy. Taking the two actions out of the riflestocks shows a machined flat action bottom on the Howa with an integral recoil lug whilst the 700 is round having been made out of drawn tubing and uses a separate lug that has to be fitted between action and barrel reinforce on assembly. Trigger assemblies are not interchangeable. Key components have different dimensions and the Howa even uses a different thread on the action to barrel tenon joint ... etc, etc.

The only thing they have in common is the same action-top profile and screw hole sizes / spacing so scope mounts are interchangeable. Oh and they are twin-lug Mauser system bolt-actions. (But so are many competing designs that nobody calls a 700 clone - eg Savage and Winchester actions.)

There are many 'Remington clones' around, many of them limited production custom jobs. That reflects the range of aftermarket goodies produced for the 700s in recent years. Make an action with the same external shape as the 700 and trigger hanger arrangements and huge ranges of stocks and improved trigger assemblies are available. That reflects Remington 'glory years' when almost all US custom rifles up to and including out and out benchrest pieces started with a 700 action. Those days are long, long gone and have nothing to do anyway with the comparative merits of these two quite different factory rifles.

 

[Precision123]

What i mean is that the howa is a version of the 700 action, and arguably, they do a better job than Remington

 

[Precision123]

Howa and W&S are owned by the same group- a W&S is a tarted up Howa. And my comment was more about build quality than anything else.

 

[User00033]

What i mean is that the howa is a version of the 700 action, and arguably, they do a better job than Remington

No, it’s not.

Howa and W&S are owned by the same group- a W&S is a tarted up Howa. And my comment was more about build quality than anything else.

No, they are not.

 

[User00033]

Precision123, it’s all good mate, festive season cheer and all that (despite it being mid summer for me)... you’re barking up the wrong tree, read posts #35 & 36 again, in terms of hunting rifles you’re getting confused between who is the manufacturer, and what is a brand.

(1) Howa, (2) Webley & Scott and (3) Legacy Sports are all different types of entity.

(1) is the manufacturer, (2) is now just a brand, (3) is an agency / importer / distributor.

W&S history has a Wikipedia entry, you’ll see what they do today, and who owns them, and how they link to all the things you’re a bit confused about (apart from Remington... ).