Remmington 700 v Howa 1500

[Laurie]

Howa and W&S are owned by the same group- a W&S is a tarted up Howa. And my comment was more about build quality than anything else.

No, they're not. Legacy Sports International (LSI) owns the Webley & Scott brand name, having bought it after Webley International which was the last gasp of the famous Birmingham firm went bankrupt in 2011.

LSI buys Howa barreled actions in bulk as I said in a previous post and turns them into salable rifles using a variety of bought-in stocks and other accessories. It may even be the sole worldwide distributor for the marque. However, LSI isn't a manufacturer, and it isn't Howa, nor does it own Howa.

Howa Machinery is a long-established Japanese manufacturer, now a very high-tech one. It produces machine tools, road sweepers / rollers and firearms (including all military rifles supplied to the Japanese Defence Forces since WW2, and before that it made large numbers of Arisaka rifles for the Imperial Japanese Army).

It is a publicly owned company in Japan with shares listed on the Tokyo stock market.

http://www.howa.co.jp/en/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howa

 

[alberta boy]

Where did you get those 'facts'. Remington Arms is owned by Cerberus Capital Management. Howa is part of a major Japanese manufacturing conglomerate and has no links to Remington or Cerberus, nor has it ever had.

The Howa / Smith & Wesson / Mossberg 1500, Weatherby Vanguard plus now it seems the Webley & Scott Empire Rifle barrelled actions are all Howa products, in fact different grades of a single product. They are made and sold as barrelled actions in various versions, calibres, barrel weights / lengths and their purchasers choose and procure a variety of stocks to give a large range of models. Foremost amongst them is the US importer Legacy Sports International. ('Our' Howas are all LSI procured and stocked, Highland Outdoors Limited being a secondary purchaser.)

The Howa 1500 action is not a Remington 700 copy or clone. It actually has more Sako L series features than Remy. Taking the two actions out of the riflestocks shows a machined flat action bottom on the Howa with an integral recoil lug whilst the 700 is round having been made out of drawn tubing and uses a separate lug that has to be fitted between action and barrel reinforce on assembly. Trigger assemblies are not interchangeable. Key components have different dimensions and the Howa even uses a different thread on the action to barrel tenon joint ... etc, etc.

The only thing they have in common is the same action-top profile and screw hole sizes / spacing so scope mounts are interchangeable. Oh and they are twin-lug Mauser system bolt-actions. (But so are many competing designs that nobody calls a 700 clone - eg Savage and Winchester actions.)

There are many 'Remington clones' around, many of them limited production custom jobs. That reflects the range of aftermarket goodies produced for the 700s in recent years. Make an action with the same external shape as the 700 and trigger hanger arrangements and huge ranges of stocks and improved trigger assemblies are available. That reflects Remington 'glory years' when almost all US custom rifles up to and including out and out benchrest pieces started with a 700 action. Those days are long, long gone and have nothing to do anyway with the comparative merits of these two quite different factory rifles.

Nicely summed up , the Howa is based on a Sako action and has been around a long time . My first was a Smith & Wesson marked 338WM , nothing fancy , just a nice , accurate rifle .

AB

 

[John Gryphon]

Ok my two cents is that if I was off for a hunt and I was handed either rifle in the same deer calibre I wouldn't give a Donald Duck as to which one I had for the hunt.

 

[Erik Hamburger]

I have no experience with the Rem700 but can recommend the Howa 1500 Stainless Sporter in .243W
I have had one since 2011 and as my main deer/fox rifle it gets a lot of abuse.
Still it does the job just fine in the field and on the range.
Go for the Sporter barrel instead of the Varmint barrel - it is perfectly fine and a lot more comfortable to carry around.

 

[dvbookshop]

Any stalking rifle which has a safety which does not lock the bolt closed can be a bit of a liability.

 

[LeftHandGuy]

Any stalking rifle which has a safety which does not lock the bolt closed can be a bit of a liability.

Any shooter who relies on any sort of mechanical safety is​ a liability. Every type of safety will fail eventually.

 

[kennyc]

Any stalking rifle which has a safety which does not lock the bolt closed can be a bit of a liability.

which one are you referring to?

 

[dvbookshop]

What I mean is that there is a tendency for the bolt to be nudged open while the rifle is slung, dumping a live round somewhere behind you and leaving the rifle unloaded when you need it. This applies to Remington 700s and possibly Howas too though I don't have one of those.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Any shooter who relies on any sort of mechanical safety is​ a liability. Every type of safety will fail eventually.

Sorry but with a mechanical safety along with one that locks the bolt AND muzzle awareness/firearm safety minimize things going wrong. You are however quite right in saying that safetys can fail hence the firearm safety to boot

 

[LeftHandGuy]

What I mean is that there is a tendency for the bolt to be nudged open while the rifle is slung, dumping a live round somewhere behind you and leaving the rifle unloaded when you need it. This applies to Remington 700s and possibly Howas too though I don't have one of those.

Ah - got you. I took liability to mean dangerous. The ability to lock the bolt closed can indeed be useful.

 

[LeftHandGuy]

Sorry but with a mechanical safety along with one that locks the bolt AND muzzle awareness/firearm safety minimize things going wrong. You are however quite right in saying that safetys can fail hence the firearm safety to boot

Proper weapons handling/muzzle awareness is the real safety. Anything else may just prevent an accident or a tragedy, but is never to be trusted or relied upon. Locking the bolt is useful, but I'm not sure how it's any safer? Blocking the firing pin I can agree might be less likely to fail than a trigger blocking safety (i.e. wear, damage or failure of other parts may cause the firing pin to be released irrespective of weather or not the trigger has been blocked/locked).

So far as I am aware neither the Howa nor the 700 feature a safety that operates on the firing pin - although I believe the earlier 700 safeties did lock the bolt.

 

[kenbro]

Safety is between your ears.
Ken.

 

[Cyres]

I have both, semi custom .223 on a 700 action but I have fitted a GC2 trigger to it. My Howa is .243 heavy varmint SS and its frighteningly accurate, if I do my part it will put rounds touching at 100 yds with 87 v max. Trigger on standard Howa (old) was v poor so fit a rifle basics. 700 takes an AI mag were as Howa is floor plate. 700 is in an AICS so rock solid, Howa is original Hogue but bedded and stiffened, so OK otherwise fit a KCS.

In my case its toss a coin to which is the best.

D

 

[User00033]

I have both, semi custom .223 on a 700 action but I have fitted a GC2 trigger to it. My Howa is .243 heavy varmint SS and its frighteningly accurate, if I do my part it will put rounds touching at 100 yds with 87 v max. Trigger on standard Howa (old) was v poor so fit a rifle basics. 700 takes an AI mag were as Howa is floor plate. 700 is in an AICS so rock solid, Howa is original Hogue but bedded and stiffened, so OK otherwise fit a KCS.

It's interesting what you say about the varmint rifle. I've had a couple or more heavy contour rifles in the collection for years, wouldn't do without them. Never owned a fussy one, never owned one that won't shoot touching holes. Three Tikkas, a Savage, two CZs and now a Howa which is the new one and will I am sure be no different to the rest. The weight issue is something you deal with - the right sling (double slings are brilliant), a well planned hunt, not too much other gear. Granted I'll not take one up the mountain, but on a day hunt the weight is tolerable if you get your head around it. A sorted varmint rifle, shooting prone at small distant pests, what's not to like...?

 

[Southern]

Merry Christmas!

I have owned, for over 20 years, a Smith & Wesson 1500 in walnut stock and .223 with 1:12 twist. The barrel is a #2 contour, a sporting weight for a .308, but relatively thick for a .223. It shoots 50 to 55-gr bullets into overlapping groups. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Howa; in fact, their 6.5 Creedmoor in the same size is appealing, at $399.00.

Here is a comparison of the Rem 700 to the Howa 1500.
Howa 1500 barreled action review: Howa 1500 versus Remington 700 rifleshooter.com

 

[Dazza9t9]

Southern - thank you for that, it’s really interesting and it appears the Howa comes out on top

merry Christmas all and again thank you for the input

 

[Dazza9t9]

I’ve been told about potential issues with the bores of the remmy 700 being off centre and inaccuracy however I have not found any evidence of this on line or by users. Does anyone know anything about this?

 

[1894]

M700 is the gold standard of aftermarket customisation. Take a stainless sps barreled action, screw into a Macmillan, add a Jewel, Tallies and you have something that will run with full customs.

 

[Southern]

Southern - thank you for that, it’s really interesting and it appears the Howa comes out on top

merry Christmas all and again thank you for the input

I don't know that I would rate one over the other. I bought my first Model 700 when I was 17, and still have it... shoots better every year. Find an older ADL or BDL from the late 1960s or 1970s, with low round count, and you can buy it very cheaply. They are solid rifles, tons of take off parts, stocks, scopes, mounts lying around.