What do you consider good enough group wise for a rifle at 100 meters?

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Zetter

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So after a few rust issues inside my .17 hornet barrel (which I got some good advice on from here) I was wondering if a re barrel was on the cards due to potential pitting (couldn't borescope it as I couldn't find anyone with a .17 cal one!). so I decided to have a crack with it at Calton Moor range for a couple of hours to see how she was grouping and also try out some 25 grain bullets for a change of pace.

Results were for me it doesn't need a rebarrel, from cold it was giving me about 1/2"- 3/4" groups off the bench with some factory ammo I had lying about. It really hated the 25 grain at lower powder loads >1.5" groups which was significantly worse than the 20 grain bullets and when a bit dirty pulled off an impressive (for me) <1/4" 5 shot group.

My .243 which I was load developing for was a bit worse at about 3/4"-1" with home loads although this probably is a result of my eyesight and using a 6x42 S and B scope on it which is a bit low mag for me at 100 meters when paper punching.

Overall I was really please especially as the Sako .243 is probably as old as me and third hand :)

After coming from air rifles its sometimes a bit hard to determine what is an acceptable/ reasonable group for centre fires. If you read some of the airgun sales forums / threads everything one holes at 35 yards and if it doesn't it not worth having!

So it got me to wondering what other members of the community look for when setting up a rifle in terms of groups and at what point they consider the rifle has an issue?
 
I am often amazed by what people post and more amazed when I see people shoot :)). My .243 will do 1/2 -3/4 inch on a rest with factory ammo but on sticks I do well to get 1 1/4. For me on deer that's plenty good enough.
My .223 with ppu was doing 11/2 inch but I have just done some home loads and that's very tight at about 1/2 inch on the rest but with the night vision on sticks i will be happy with 11/2.
 
Zetter said:
So after a few rust issues inside my .17 hornet barrel (which I got some good advice on from here) I was wondering if a re barrel was on the cards due to potential pitting (couldn't borescope it as I couldn't find anyone with a .17 cal one!). so I decided to have a crack with it at Calton Moor range for a couple of hours to see how she was grouping and also try out some 25 grain bullets for a change of pace.

Results were for me it doesn't need a rebarrel, from cold it was giving me about 1/2"- 3/4" groups off the bench with some factory ammo I had lying about. It really hated the 25 grain at lower powder loads >1.5" groups which was significantly worse than the 20 grain bullets and when a bit dirty pulled off an impressive (for me) <1/4" 5 shot group.

My .243 which I was load developing for was a bit worse at about 3/4"-1" with home loads although this probably is a result of my eyesight and using a 6x42 S and B scope on it which is a bit low mag for me at 100 meters when paper punching.

Overall I was really please especially as the Sako .243 is probably as old as me and third hand :)

After coming from air rifles its sometimes a bit hard to determine what is an acceptable/ reasonable group for centre fires. If you read some of the airgun sales forums / threads everything one holes at 35 yards and if it doesn't it not worth having!

So it got me to wondering what other members of the community look for when setting up a rifle in terms of groups and at what point they consider the rifle has an issue?
Click to expand...

It's doing what it was made to do, it's fine, just go out shooting and enjoy your self.
 
.280 ack 162gr .5 to .75 100yrd happy with that don't need more . .223 55gr .5 or better odd flyer
 
Nor I !

I've only just got my 6.5 to 1/2" after quite bit of load development

But I only did that for longer range target shooting

For deer i might just as well have stuck to PPU at 2" off sticks with the occasional 4" flier
 
How tight a group you and your rifle need to shoot at 100 meters depends on what you plan to shoot in the field or on the range, and how far away.

If you only plan to shoot deer at 100 yards or less, a consistent 3 inch group is enough.

If you need to hit 3 inches on the heart of a pronghorn at 300 yards, then 1 inch groups at 100 yards are about the maximum tolerance, for your starting point. Then you need to shoot 2 inchers at 200, 3 inchers at 300, and 4 inchers at 400, before taking that serious 300 yard shot.
 
You also need to specify how many shots per group. You get a better idea of accuracy with more shots, but also increase the chance of a flyer. These could be you, could be the rifle, you won't know.

To quote another forum poster's tagline: "3 shots is an indication of aim, 5 shots is a group"
 
I was in conversation with a Defra operative last night, he was amazed how many that come forward that cannot group within a two inch requirement, at 70 metres.
 
I take it we are talking out the box , mass produced rifles and not match rifles. Might be worth looking up what group your rifles is guaranteed to, then I think you will be happy shooting less than 1 inch....
 
The answer has already been given but to put it another way work backwards.

what do you intend to shoot? With a 17 hornet I guess foxes? Out to about 200m max? The kill zone on a fox is a 4” circle. This means if you group less than 2” at 100m you will be fine. To give you a margin of error 1.5” would be good 1” better.

Too many people get hung up about same hole shooting, it’s trigger control that is by far more important and confidence in your rifle and your ability.

BE
 
paul newham said:
I take it we are talking out the box , mass produced rifles and not match rifles. Might be worth looking up what group your rifles is guaranteed to, then I think you will be happy shooting less than 1 inch....
Click to expand...


This was more what I was wondering about tbh as you see a lot of off the shelf stuff guaranteed to 1 MOA so it got me to thinking what other people expect from their off the shelf stuff
 
The short answer is that the right group and accuracy is the one you are happy with.

Fur hunting/field conditions my view is:
First consider what would be the typical average distance at which you shoot your quarry.
Secondly what size killing zone are you looking at.

For example, a 3" group at 100 Yards with a deer caliber is absolutely fine - there is plenty of margin with a 6-8" killing zone. (Broadside h/l shots)
However a 2" Group at 50 yards is no good when trying to head-shoot rabbits with a .22Lr....

So having put things into perspective take a reality check and ignore all the comments about the importance of high precision accuracy. The reality, you will find, is that most stalkers do NOT achieve the 'clover-leave' and 'sub-1" group' at 100 yards they claim to achieve, even under controlled bench-rest conditions on a range. In real live hunting under field conditions we use sticks or a branch or a gate-post...and these wonderful groups of which some people even proudly post pictures are not achievable by most. What really matters is to get as close to your quarry as you can and than to humanely and safely dispatch it.

A now await many posts from people who tell you I am wrong and that your rifle and amo combe really, really should achieve a 5mm group at 100 yards or otherwise there must be something wrong with your kit or you ;) . Oh no there isn't...
 
When I did my level 1 I was amazed at the number of people who were back for a resit on the rifle accuracy test.
It really is not that difficult but a lot fail, nerves perhaps ?
Some of these were highland stalkers who could probably shoot perfect groups under normal conditions but not on the test.
I believe it is the one module that most people fail on.
 
Simple, the better your rifle the better your groups. A lousy rifle never helped grouping.
edi
 
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