6.5x55 or .243?

[User00033]

If I was in your position I would keep the 22-250 and 270 set up for longer range use with appropriate scope - open hill use etc. I would partner it with a 7x57, 7mm08 or 308 in a lighter weight rifle with a lower power scope for use in the woods, and at shooter ranges, but in the knowledge you still have the reach and ability to use bigger bullets for bigger / tougher animals at closer range.

That is a sensible suggestion, it mirrors what I've done in that I have replaced my .308 with the 6.5 Creedmoor for the longer stuff, and re-purposed the .308 into a suppressed 18" woods gun, complete with lightweight aluminium chassis and a 1-6x24 scope. I am working on loads with the two 180gr Sierra ProHunters (spitzer vs round nose, 2150 & 2170). I am one hundred percent confident in its ability to deal to the toughest pigs and stags in the thickest bush settings.

However for your application - smaller deer - you have to be careful not to blow dirty great big holes in them. The old maxim 'slow and heavy' comes to mind. The right combination of medium weight bullet and slower velocity is perfect on light game, in that it mushrooms adequately and imparts ample shock, with a decent wound channel, but doesn't fragment excessively and create a 4" exit wound. The old 30-30 method. They are still very popular here, the 30-30 (and similar) lever guns, for woods hunting large and small animals, particularly yearling reds and fallow.

 

[tinsellclark]

I think you’d love both, night be nice to have a compact short action rifle in 243?

 

[Laurie]

On 6.5X55 loads and pressures, there are in effect two industry pressure levels being used, and then one additional by some handloaders and a second additional by some manufacturers.

In terms of pressure, low to high, we have first off what some US manufacturers load the cartridge to - US SAAMI minus something, or it appears with some loads I've chronographed minus a lot. At least one factory 140gn PSP load I tried must have been running somewhere in the mid to high 30,000s psi levels. Not only was the MV way below the manufacturer's claims, but it produced poor case obturation in the chamber and 117 fps ES readings over 10 rounds - signs of an inefficiently low pressure loading.

Then there is US SAAMI, 46,000 CUP using the outdated pressure crusher measurement method. There is no direct CUP to psi conversion factor, but 46,000 CUP will be somewhere around 50-52,000 psi. (US SAAMI for the old .303 British is 45,000 CUP). I suspect that when the US reloading manual blurb says 'modern firearms in good condition' or something similar, this will be the pressure level of many of the maximum loads.

Next up is CIP for 6.5X55SE / 6.5X55mm SKAN only. SE/SKAN is a higher pressure loading for modern rifles and is rated as 3,800 bar / 55,114 psi MAP (Maximum Average Pressure). That is what is used in Viht's higher rated table.

Finally, there is what some handloaders actually load to apparently working on the basis of Lapua or Norma brass in a strong action - why should it be anything less than other modern cartridges? ie around 60-62,000 psi? On the basis of some loads and MVs one sees quoted, especially from target shooters, these pressure levels are being achieved.

 

[Blobby159]

viht also provide 2 sets of data, older actions and SKAN data, though confusingly for some bullets the Mauser data is hotter than the Skan!

Yes I have seen this data and 'SKAN' designation but hadn't noticed that "confusingly for some bullets the Mauser data is hotter than the Skan!".. That is not just confusing but potentially dangerous!! Crazy eh??

ATB... and shoot safely!

 

[DIGGER101]

both brilliant calibres

 

[bogtrotter]

Everybody seems to.be chasing ft per sec. the hottest load is not always the most accurate , the most accurate for me .243 with 100 grain.bullet ( which I need to.use by law) is just a little over a starter load does the job just fine with little damage.

 

[User00033]

Everybody seems to.be chasing ft per sec. the hottest load is not always the most accurate , the most accurate for me .243 with 100 grain.bullet ( which I need to.use by law) is just a little over a starter load does the job just fine with little damage.

Exactly the same as mine bogtrotter, my mild .243 100gr load has taken hundreds of game animals in three different rifles for many years now. Toyed with the idea of hotting it up a bit a year or so ago and then promptly gave up on the idea because why on earth would I change something that works so well?

Obviously I don’t have any legal constraints but that said I would love to hear of any successful prosecutions in the UK of .243 shooters using a 100 grain bullet that was under the legal minimum ft-lbs. But that’s probably a story for another day.

 

[Limpet]

Everybody seems to.be chasing ft per sec. the hottest load is not always the most accurate , the most accurate for me .243 with 100 grain.bullet ( which I need to.use by law) is just a little over a starter load does the job just fine with little damage.

Not everyone - I found a nice accuracy node in a ladder test and opted for a lower powder choice to be charge weight tolerant rather than push it.

 

[NigelM]

I have been shooting 6mm-6.5 Lapua for Muntjac, Roe and Fallow. It sends a 100 grain ProHunter at 3130 fps, very similar to a 243 Win. The damage to the front end if you go through a shoulder on a quartering shot is nothing short of spectacular, complete write off of the front end. Load it down to 2850 fps which is much better suited to the bullet design and the results are far more acceptable.

In contrast, my 6.5 Lapua shooting a 130 grain ABLR (bonded) at 2900 fps does much less meat damage, drops the Roe just as effectively and because the bullet is so efficient retains it velocity and energy over much greater distances so more consistent at different ranges.

I have now stopped using the 6mm and use the 6.5 for small deer and a 7mm08 for larger deer with a 150 ABLR. The 6mm is highly likely to get rebarrelled in 308 Win to shoot 180 grain bullets for piggies with a 22" barrel.

As someone said earlier in the thread, it's not all about velocity hunting. Trajectory is physics and is predicted very accurately given the right tools and can be dialled or held over. Wind is the enemy and efficient long for calibre bullets significantly reduce drift which is far less accurately calculated.

With the decision you are about to make I would go 6.5 every time.

 

[Blobby159]

Not everyone - I found a nice accuracy node in a ladder test and opted for a lower powder choice to be charge weight tolerant rather than push it.

Hey 'Limpet', 'Bogtrotter'... Yes, you are BOTH in a good place with the .243 and your reloads. In the final analysis it is ACCURACY and in-game performance that matters and NOT the mere f.p.s. that has been discussed mostly in the thread. If your loads hit where you are aiming, and if the bullets you are using do the job as intended, why on earth change that!!!

I go for velocity and accuracy cos I have found during my several decades of reloading that for my own rifles at least, top accuracy is most often obtained close to the maximum loadings. I am not sure for why, but that is my findings, and also why, in this deer legal caliber I have been careful NOT to go with standard Soft/Hollow Points which might very well "grenade" at close to medium ranges! When I engage quarry that I actually want to EAT, that kind of performance is definitely NOT desirable!! Hence my dependance on Nosler Partitions (at least to some extent anyways) as they don't 'blow up' at close range, being strongly constructed in the rear half of the bullets, and also my loading to high velocities helps with the secondary - face #2 - of these well made bullets, driving them onward, deeply even to pass throughs..

ATB .... and shoot safely.

 

[Limpet]

Hey 'Limpet', 'Bogtrotter'... Yes, you are BOTH in a good place with the .243 and your reloads. In the final analysis it is ACCURACY and in-game performance that matters and NOT the mere f.p.s. that has been discussed mostly in the thread. If your loads hit where you are aiming, and if the bullets you are using do the job as intended, why on earth change that!!!

I go for velocity and accuracy cos I have found during my several decades of reloading that for my own rifles at least, top accuracy is most often obtained close to the maximum loadings. I am not sure for why, but that is my findings, and also why, in this deer legal caliber I have been careful NOT to go with standard Soft/Hollow Points which might very well "grenade" at close to medium ranges! When I engage quarry that I actually want to EAT, that kind of performance is definitely NOT desirable!! Hence my dependance on Nosler Partitions (at least to some extent anyways) as they don't 'blow up' at close range, being strongly constructed in the rear half of the bullets, and also my loading to high velocities helps with the secondary - face #2 - of these well made bullets, driving them onward, deeply even to pass throughs..

ATB .... and shoot safely.

Thanks, Blobby. The notion stands for both calibers and actually I was talking about the swede that I've recently taken on in a rehoming exercise. A Sauer 202. My 243 is resting like an elderly donkey out to pasture.

 

[User00033]

I go for velocity and accuracy cos I have found during my several decades of reloading that for my own rifles at least, top accuracy is most often obtained close to the maximum loadings...

You hear this quite often, but I've not found it to be the case. I have pretty much always found that there are at least two accuracy nodes, sometimes more, where the size of groups is all but identical taking into account the human factor.

For my .243, there are two clear nodes with the 100gr ProHunter. You often hear (as in this thread) that the 100gr bullets can be finnickety in the 1:10" barrel and that is true of my current rifle, which took a bit to get to group to my satisfaction. One node is in the lower mid-range, and one at the top end, a shade over Sierra and ADI book max for the 100gr ProHunter. Both loads deliver pretty much identical ES and grouping. I use the lower powder weight for the reasons discussed, don't want to make a mess. I nearly adopted the higher velocity, then thought about it, and decided not to. For 30 years I've shot the .243 without blowing things up so seems a bit stupid to start now.

For my 6.5 Creedmoor, the groups at the bottom of the ladder were tiny. I've written about this before - after the initial break-in shots, I shot some prelim scope adjustment shots, then shot a 5 shot group with the book minimum load and got one single beautiful gorgeous little hole. This has also been experienced by a couple of other Creedmoor shooters here with the exact same rifle. Working up the load table, similar groups were experienced twice but I pushed on wanting to stretch as much velocity out of the rifle as I can until I get pressure signs, for the purpose of terminal ballistics at 500m+. My selected load which is over book max is one of four accuracy nodes on the ladder (the extent to which it is over book max is due to the small rifle primer brass business, as discussed in the current thread next door).

My most recent exercise has been with my newly chopped .308. This one I am quite deliberately not trying to hot rod, and have found a prelim accuracy node again in the lower mid of the load range. Just fantastic. I doubt I'm even going to bother pushing past this node because I want to limit recoil as much as possible it being a light rifle.

I know that in the past I've been suckered into thinking warp speed is essential, but its not, certainly not for normal 50-300m shots. In hunting terms, as long as your bullet is performing on the animal, its fast enough.

 

[Blobby159]

I came into shooting many years ago through helping a local farmer friend and a separate horse stables to control their immediate pest problems with an air rifle, then a .22RF and so on, working up through ever quicker projectiles to ensure my shooting took its toll at the other end with minimal hold-over/hold-under and yet at longer & longer ranges from my shooting positions.

I think it is a known fact that wherever us pest shooters point a fire-arm at a pest species that over time the bullet speeds just keep escalating, getting faster and faster through a kind of evolution that is trying to negate the effects of gravity over ever increasing distance whilst keeping the projectiles fired pin-point accurate and with sufficient energy to do the job asked of them!

That kind of ethos has in effect come with me into the deer & long range target shooting calibers where when hunting one MUST attempt to balance projectile velocities against the bullet frangibility and propensity to upset and dump energy into the game critter but NOT so violently that they effectively blow up & destroy quality meat in the targets .

In these circumstances I do believe it is prudent to keep the rounds accurate above all, but only as fast as they can function in target as they are/were designed to do, expanding rapidly to a point but then holding together so as NOT to just cream the quality cuts of meat on the deer due to excessive bullet speed and poorly matched bullet construction.

However, at this present time I am primarily using my 6.5x55 SE as an accurate long distance range rifle and velocity is King as long as it is matched with accuracy. It negates BOTH bullet drop AND wind deflections.

ATB ..... and shoot safely!

 

[25 Sharps]

I came into shooting many years ago through helping a local farmer friend and a separate horse stables to control their immediate pest problems with an air rifle, then a .22RF and so on, working up through ever quicker projectiles to ensure my shooting took its toll at the other end with minimal hold-over/hold-under and yet at longer & longer ranges from my shooting positions.

I think it is a known fact that wherever us pest shooters point a fire-arm at a pest species that over time the bullet speeds just keep escalating, getting faster and faster through a kind of evolution that is trying to negate the effects of gravity over ever increasing distance whilst keeping the projectiles fired pin-point accurate and with sufficient energy to do the job asked of them!

That kind of ethos has in effect come with me into the deer & long range target shooting calibers where when hunting one MUST attempt to balance projectile velocities against the bullet frangibility and propensity to upset and dump energy into the game critter but NOT so violently that they effectively blow up & destroy quality meat in the targets .

In these circumstances I do believe it is prudent to keep the rounds accurate above all, but only as fast as they can function in target as they are/were designed to do, expanding rapidly to a point but then holding together so as NOT to just cream the quality cuts of meat on the deer due to excessive bullet speed and poorly matched bullet construction.

However, at this present time I am primarily using my 6.5x55 SE as an accurate long distance range rifle and velocity is King as long as it is matched with accuracy. It negates BOTH bullet drop AND wind deflections.

ATB ..... and shoot safely!

If this was the case my 0.223 AI would get used for vermin far more than my 0.22 Hornet and it doesn't, the hornet gets used 50/50 in comparison to 0.22LR where i have the choice what to use.

When is your 6.5 SAUM arriving?

 

[Blobby159]

If this was the case my 0.223 AI would get used for vermin far more than my 0.22 Hornet and it doesn't, the hornet gets used 50/50 in comparison to 0.22LR where i have the choice what to use.

When is your 6.5 SAUM arriving?

Hahahahahahahaaaaa!!.. To be honest I HAVE taken a certain amount of interest in the 6.5x284 so I am moving in that direction '25 Sharps'. But that is for range-work only. Now I have a limited choice of rifles to use I do not now just go for the one with the fastest projectiles, though I do take out my Sako Vixen in .17Rem. from time to time - I have "favourites' that changes from time to time, mostly governed by the weather now and NOT by their velocities....

As it happens MY goto bunny & fox bashing firearm is MY .22 K-Hornet as long as it isn't too windy, in which case my .223 comes out to play.

 

[wildfowler.250]

Thanks for all the replies guys! Really appreciate it. The only other caliber I’m looking into at the moment is a 25-06 but search engine isn’t coming up with any goods!

 

[grosin]

Plus one for 6.5 x55 ,6.5 is a great deer calibre in my opinion for both roe and red

 

[Uncas]

So I’m looking for a second rifle in either of the above. I’ve already got a .270 which is fine,(flattens things but not much excitement to it) and a .22-250. Looking for a second ‘deer’ rifle, maybe more for hinds/roe ect. Ignoring the .22-250 as I have it for vermin, which would be the better option as a slightly milder deer gun? I’ve used a .243 on estates as a hire but never shot a 6.5 swede,(probably ideally a sako 75) but I’m very tempted by the latter.

Will be home loading so that’s less of an issue.


Cheers!


ps the .270 is staying. It does what it says on the tin

Why bother with a 6.5 when you can down-load the .270 130gr to 6.5 velocity

 

[big ears]

Both are good and will kill deer. If you homeload the 6.5x55 with 140 gr bullets will our perform a 308 at 300 yards with energy and also bucking the wind. Shoot the 120 gr then it becomes an excellent small deer/fox rifle. Forget the flat vs loopy argument as it is just a sales pitch. 1” up at 100’ means 2” down at 200’. So don’t worry and just shoot it.

 

[devon deer stalker]

I have for a very long time been interested in the Swede, but I have settled on my .243 and 30-06, as far as I'm concerned, job done.
I have shot huge stags with the .243, and no doubt it would drop a Montana bull Elk, but I have left it at home and used my 30-06
If I get a call from a farmer about a fox, its my .243 and 100 grain BTSP Speer, if says there's a big Devon stag around as well, it's my .243!
Cheers
Richard

 

[big ears]

I have for a very long time been interested in the Swede, but I have settled on my .243 and 30-06, as far as I'm concerned, job done.
I have shot huge stags with the .243, and no doubt it would drop a Montana bull Elk, but I have left it at home and used my 30-06
If I get a call from a farmer about a fox, its my .243 and 100 grain BTSP Speer, if says there's a big Devon stag around as well, it's my .243!
Cheers
Richard

Ives seen some of the deer he’s shot and he’s not kidding!!