I've been asked by GMP to submit sample cartridge casings - anyone else been asked?
- Thread starter jon2
- Start date
I have just scanned this thread, following an alert from a shooting member, and cannot believe how the simple request has been distorted.
The request GMP have made to their certificate holders is to recover a used cartridge case from each of their guns/barrels. The case should be sealed in one of the bags provided. The bag marked with details of the gun and when the case was recovered. THE CASE IS THEN RETAINED BY THE CERTIFICATE HOLDER IN A PLACE AWAY FROM THEIR GUN(S). There is absolutely no suggestion of submitting them to the Police.
In the unfirtunate event of a gun being lost or stolen, then if cases have been saved they would be collected by the Police. At this point the cases would be entered onto the ballistics database. Any match from a subsequent incident would identify the source of the gun and may be a most useful piece of information for an Investigating Police Officer.
There is nothing sinister in this request as cases would only come into the possession of the Police after a gun was reported lost or stolen. The project is purely voluntary and I can assure that those who do not wish to participate will not be disadvantaged in any way.
I look upon it as Shooters and licensing authorities working together in the interests of safety.
There is a direct contact number on each letter sent out for those who want further clarification.
Jim Jones.
The request GMP have made to their certificate holders is to recover a used cartridge case from each of their guns/barrels. The case should be sealed in one of the bags provided. The bag marked with details of the gun and when the case was recovered. THE CASE IS THEN RETAINED BY THE CERTIFICATE HOLDER IN A PLACE AWAY FROM THEIR GUN(S). There is absolutely no suggestion of submitting them to the Police.
In the unfirtunate event of a gun being lost or stolen, then if cases have been saved they would be collected by the Police. At this point the cases would be entered onto the ballistics database. Any match from a subsequent incident would identify the source of the gun and may be a most useful piece of information for an Investigating Police Officer.
There is nothing sinister in this request as cases would only come into the possession of the Police after a gun was reported lost or stolen. The project is purely voluntary and I can assure that those who do not wish to participate will not be disadvantaged in any way.
I look upon it as Shooters and licensing authorities working together in the interests of safety.
There is a direct contact number on each letter sent out for those who want further clarification.
Jim Jones.
Spot on Jim,
But you can see how what was undoutably a request made in good faith by GMP has caused allot of worry. Lesson learned I hope!
Just to confirm that there it is not compulsory for shooters to comply, and if shooters do not comply, the simple fact that they have not complied will not in any way affect their renewal or any variation request.
David
But you can see how what was undoutably a request made in good faith by GMP has caused allot of worry. Lesson learned I hope!
Just to confirm that there it is not compulsory for shooters to comply, and if shooters do not comply, the simple fact that they have not complied will not in any way affect their renewal or any variation request.
David
Dan Gliballs
Well-Known Member
There is always two sides to a story.
All becomes clear when the second story is told.
All becomes clear when the second story is told.
Claret_Dabbler
Well-Known Member
Jim, that is actually pretty sensible idea.
We are still paranoid though.....
We are still paranoid though.....
jon2
Well-Known Member
Jim
I started the thread and therefore am "guilty" of not reading the letter correctly. I am away for the weekend and therefore do not have access to re-read the letter. However I did interpret it as I did and I am sure others will have too. I suppose I must have focused on the highlights and with finding bags enclosed I assumed they were to be returned.
I started the thread and therefore am "guilty" of not reading the letter correctly. I am away for the weekend and therefore do not have access to re-read the letter. However I did interpret it as I did and I am sure others will have too. I suppose I must have focused on the highlights and with finding bags enclosed I assumed they were to be returned.
Might be a much simpler idea to start this off at the proof houses?
I have to say that it sounds like a pointless and costly excercise to me in an economic climate in which police funds are reportedly being cut to the bone.
Jim, please feel free to enlighten me with any statistics you may have but when was a previously legally held sporting rifle last used in a criminal activity? A rifle would hardly be my firearm of choice if I was that way inclined. I suspect anyone with criminal intent would find it far easier to source a much more suitable firearm from other sources than to go to the trouble and risk of breaking into someone's house on the off chance there were any weapons in there. That said, I do appreciate that an opportunist thief will probably have a crack at taking anything he believes to be of value.
Finally, why would it matter where the firearm had come from after the fact?
Kind regards,
Tim
Jim, please feel free to enlighten me with any statistics you may have but when was a previously legally held sporting rifle last used in a criminal activity? A rifle would hardly be my firearm of choice if I was that way inclined. I suspect anyone with criminal intent would find it far easier to source a much more suitable firearm from other sources than to go to the trouble and risk of breaking into someone's house on the off chance there were any weapons in there. That said, I do appreciate that an opportunist thief will probably have a crack at taking anything he believes to be of value.
Finally, why would it matter where the firearm had come from after the fact?
Kind regards,
Tim
Dan Gliballs
Well-Known Member
This scheme is flawed surely?
Im pretty sure with the work my rifles do that any signature marks on primers, necks and extractor rims will differ from one year to the next.
I was loading at the grouse on Saturday for a gentleman who was a International Clay Pigeon World Champion and shoots 30,000 cartridges a year through his gun, I would be surprised if he has the same firing pin in for more than 6 months!
Im pretty sure with the work my rifles do that any signature marks on primers, necks and extractor rims will differ from one year to the next.
I was loading at the grouse on Saturday for a gentleman who was a International Clay Pigeon World Champion and shoots 30,000 cartridges a year through his gun, I would be surprised if he has the same firing pin in for more than 6 months!
Mannlicher_Stu
Well-Known Member
Then in the first instance why wasnt the full story /reason given ?
Instead such a request just puts shooters and law abiding citizens on notice that can only cause some concern and consternation and mistrust, if the reasons given now by GMP are factual, which I know doubt believe they are, then we have nothing to be concerned about and in my view can only aid the police if such a firearm was stolen, which hopefully would quickly lead to from where such a firearm had been stolen and its return, but that was not how initialy this post was made.
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Mannlicher_Stu
Well-Known Member
Dan I already made that point in respect to new firing pins fitted and for that matter extractors which would alter positive identification.
I have replacement pins and an extractor to both shotguns and rifle so this idea is flawed.
I accept other marks could be identified but positive identification would not be possible unless this excercise was re carried out imediately after a repair.
Dan Gliballs
Well-Known Member
Oooo sorry!
8x57
Distinguished Member
I don't know who suggested this to GMP but it seems like a pretty pointless exercise, the logic of which is flawed in many areas. I can see it being of no benefit to either police or shooter and would that suggest that it is one of those ideas best forgotten about and is dropped as quickly as possible. If I was cynical I would suggest that in the unfortunate event of somebody having their firearms stolen and the firearm subsequently used in a crime which could be proven by using such evidence the evidence could actually be used against the gun owner, personally I would rather not get involved with such a scheme as I can not see any advantage to anybody. I think somebody has been watching too much CSI on the television!!
Would that be Alex CSI then???????
Last point on the subject as it is up to individuals to decide whether to participate or not.
The cost is minimal to GMP and zero to shooters. If you replace parts then discard the original case and repeat the procedure with the new parts.
I believe very simple and straight forward.
JJ
The cost is minimal to GMP and zero to shooters. If you replace parts then discard the original case and repeat the procedure with the new parts.
I believe very simple and straight forward.
JJ
GMP,
My hat goes off to the GMP for the input on this thread,I am all for closer co-operation with the Licensing Authorities, but as you will be aware there are so many different interpretations and restrictions that different Forces are applying, I feel that for this scheme to work it would need nationwide co-operation between forces and 100% co-operation with the license holders.
Until there is a standard that ALL Forces adhere to then there will never be cohesion between the two parties.
regards
Griff
My hat goes off to the GMP for the input on this thread,I am all for closer co-operation with the Licensing Authorities, but as you will be aware there are so many different interpretations and restrictions that different Forces are applying, I feel that for this scheme to work it would need nationwide co-operation between forces and 100% co-operation with the license holders.
Until there is a standard that ALL Forces adhere to then there will never be cohesion between the two parties.
regards
Griff
Morgy
Well-Known Member
You lot down let the grass grow do you . I only heard about this a couple of hours ago and we are already on page 6.
I would think anything that aided the Police to identify a criminal using a stolen firearm has to be worth a shot (pardon the pun) how many times have you personally had to change a firing pin in one of your weapons? as Jim said, couldnt you just repeat the excercise the next time you fired that weapon with its new firing pin.......well of course you could, it didnt cost you anymore to keep a single empty cartridge does it?
. I only heard about this a couple of hours ago and we are already on page 6. I would think anything that aided the Police to identify a criminal using a stolen firearm has to be worth a shot (pardon the pun) how many times have you personally had to change a firing pin in one of your weapons? as Jim said, couldnt you just repeat the excercise the next time you fired that weapon with its new firing pin.......well of course you could, it didnt cost you anymore to keep a single empty cartridge does it?
Mannlicher_Stu
Well-Known Member
I already made the point of re carrying out the proceedure myself , the problem here is actually remembering to do it.You lot down let the grass grow do you
I would think anything that aided the Police to identify a criminal using a stolen firearm has to be worth a shot (pardon the pun) how many times have you personally had to change a firing pin in one of your weapons? as Jim said, couldnt you just repeat the excercise the next time you fired that weapon with its new firing pin.......well of course you could, it didnt cost you anymore to keep a single empty cartridge does it?
As previously stated I have already replaced a firing pin and also an extractor on the same rifle due to a case problem like wise had to replace disc striker and firing pin this year on my side by side due to a broken pin so yes it does happen, with some regularity it appears, but I concede in principle that putting aside a case in principle is a positive step in aiding the police should such a theft take place, but the flaw is with me in remembering to go through the process of putting a new case away after work done on a weapon, and I am more than sure there wont be just me that forgets to do it.
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