It would be interesting to know what if anything Peter Glenser had done in regard to trying to address the flawed wording of the general licence prior to the challenge. It beggars belief that a bunch of clowns led by Packham had seen the opportunity to exploit it when the chairman of BASC (who is an expert in regulatory law) has missed it. or maybe could not be ar@ed to do anything about it.
BASC responds to revocation of general licences
- Thread starter DebbieBASC
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It would be interesting to know what if anything Peter Glenser had done in regard to trying to address the flawed wording of the general licence prior to the challenge. It beggars belief that a bunch of clowns led by Packham had seen the opportunity to exploit it when the chairman of BASC (who is an expert in regulatory law) has missed it. or maybe could not be ar@ed to do anything about it.
I also left. Although I've posted my reasons in past threads. Like the OP I'll never return. Maybe BASC will "welcome" that chance to now re-brand itself? As the British Association for Surrender and Capitulation maybe?
jimbo1984
Well-Known Member
For personal gain perhaps .....
Uncle Norm
Well-Known Member
Natural England's actions, lack of consultation, lack of reasonable notice etc. all have the appearance of an abuse of both process and power.
Which of our organisations has held an emergency executive meeting and decided to apply for a judicial review ???? Answers on a postcard..... no, on a postage stamp perhaps.
Which of our organisations has held an emergency executive meeting and decided to apply for a judicial review ???? Answers on a postcard..... no, on a postage stamp perhaps.
Is it possible for farmers/land owners to claim back the crop and other damage as NE have effectively stopped the legal methods of control, a few thousand farmers all claiming together would make someone take notice?
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
The complete lack of thought and understanding shown by NE is absolutely staggering.
If they even waited 1 month the peak nesting and spring drilling season would be past and u could stand the turmoil a bit more
But this is the worst possible time they could of withdrew them.
Must admit if this is the future for NE it does not bode well for anything rural, wether conservation shooting or agri.
The antis are playing a very clever game, know they can't ban shooting outright so targeted lead shot, then HH, then banning release of some non native birds (can see that morphing in future to affect pheasants) and now the GL
If they even waited 1 month the peak nesting and spring drilling season would be past and u could stand the turmoil a bit more
But this is the worst possible time they could of withdrew them.
Must admit if this is the future for NE it does not bode well for anything rural, wether conservation shooting or agri.
The antis are playing a very clever game, know they can't ban shooting outright so targeted lead shot, then HH, then banning release of some non native birds (can see that morphing in future to affect pheasants) and now the GL
I am really sad but envigorated that almost everyone is now very angry about this continual abuse of power with NO response from BASC (the biggest).
Shooting Orgs should focus member discontent into positive responsive action - how many have you noticed do this. Lead shot was prime example, medicals another. We are the only ones who have the power to change the way this is heading by the use of our votes or better still our membership subscriptions. BASC's view has changed today because of this anger - finally waking up to what they are supposed to have pre-empted. Not worth a light.
Be angry with your subscriptions this time. Very many seem to be suggesting they will.
Remember the first reaction “BASC is disappointed with the lack of notice from Natural England and we feel it unnecessarily puts people at risk of unwittingly falling foul of the law.
Something happened to change it to this:-
During the phone call, Mr Bell demanded an urgent meeting with new Natural England chairman Tony Juniper to discuss the revocation and the validity and future of the relationship between BASC and NE.
I hope and expect legal action to protect all shooters will follow IMMEDIATELY. If one person loses the right to shoot because of this debacle BASC needs to hang its head in shame -again.
Shooting Orgs should focus member discontent into positive responsive action - how many have you noticed do this. Lead shot was prime example, medicals another. We are the only ones who have the power to change the way this is heading by the use of our votes or better still our membership subscriptions. BASC's view has changed today because of this anger - finally waking up to what they are supposed to have pre-empted. Not worth a light.
Be angry with your subscriptions this time. Very many seem to be suggesting they will.
Remember the first reaction “BASC is disappointed with the lack of notice from Natural England and we feel it unnecessarily puts people at risk of unwittingly falling foul of the law.
Something happened to change it to this:-
During the phone call, Mr Bell demanded an urgent meeting with new Natural England chairman Tony Juniper to discuss the revocation and the validity and future of the relationship between BASC and NE.
I hope and expect legal action to protect all shooters will follow IMMEDIATELY. If one person loses the right to shoot because of this debacle BASC needs to hang its head in shame -again.
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Benelli m2
Well-Known Member
So it's been revoked by natural England are bringing a new licence out for us
Don't make sense
Don't make sense
There is nothing BASC could do or any organisation for that matter ,
The lawsuit from Peckhams side done their research and noticed something that made it clear they would win in a court of law.
The lawsuit is because under English legislation for General License to be used you HAVE to prove there is no other non-lethal way to manage that problem species of bird, and NE would have had to police it and they did not that is why the lawsuit is happening against NE and not SNH and the Scottish Government and the reason why they did not go against SNH is because that particular loophole is not in the Scottish licensing legislation, it was a mess up made by NE wording and it has backfired on everyone.
To be fair I don't trust any organisation in fact to be honest I don't trust many people in general.
What you lot have to understand this lawsuit is not against BASC that Packham brought forward it was against NE and NE knew they could not win in court and that would have been a disaster if they lost publicly as it would have opened a tonne of doors for the Packham brigade in not just the GL but other licenses.
levigsp
Well-Known Member
I am sorry but you are wrong and I will explain why. Firstly NE did not know any such thing, if it were so,than SNH would be in the same position, but they said they WILL NOT revoke the AGLs. Have you looked at who sighed the revocation? or when they actively took on the job? if you have or do, then consider why Packham actually went to EN yesterday to see his friend and Kindred spirit, a bit more than coincidence in my book.
A known anti going to see another known anti to see about the legal status of of AGLs just as we get into serious pest control, makes me sick to my stomach.
It was settled out of court in the end to save face and snap decision made because the lawyers told them, that will be the official answer not because mates agreements it takes ministers to change and make laws not heads or manager of NE ,
people are talking about counter lawsuits, who are they gonna make that against, I get this is all stupid and definitely wrong timing for pest controllers, keepers etc etc but it is perfect timing for those fighting against country sports .
I said this a while ago and noone listened, anti's will stop lobbying Westminster for change they are now using the courts finding the many hundreds of backdoors to get to make life hard for all our community and we are our own worst enemy,
The fact you have guys openly advertising Pigeon shooting days as sport, NOT PEST CONTROL, and various other days out hiding under the general license has screwed it for all, that would be like deer managers advertising night shooting for deer because a license has been obtained to shoot deer at night. So many now took advantage of the general license laws to make money and that defeated the purpose of the GL in the first place. Openbly advertising was the big mistake made.
In the lawsuit that Packham has put forward he did mention social media, so forums like this one are monitored and we know the antis are against the sporting community.
We all understand why we need the GL, and those genuinely using the GL for its purpose are the ones affected by this but again greed has caused major issues within our communities.
Like or lump it what I am saying is true again we are our own worst enemies the antis know this.
people are talking about counter lawsuits, who are they gonna make that against, I get this is all stupid and definitely wrong timing for pest controllers, keepers etc etc but it is perfect timing for those fighting against country sports .
I said this a while ago and noone listened, anti's will stop lobbying Westminster for change they are now using the courts finding the many hundreds of backdoors to get to make life hard for all our community and we are our own worst enemy,
The fact you have guys openly advertising Pigeon shooting days as sport, NOT PEST CONTROL, and various other days out hiding under the general license has screwed it for all, that would be like deer managers advertising night shooting for deer because a license has been obtained to shoot deer at night. So many now took advantage of the general license laws to make money and that defeated the purpose of the GL in the first place. Openbly advertising was the big mistake made.
In the lawsuit that Packham has put forward he did mention social media, so forums like this one are monitored and we know the antis are against the sporting community.
We all understand why we need the GL, and those genuinely using the GL for its purpose are the ones affected by this but again greed has caused major issues within our communities.
Like or lump it what I am saying is true again we are our own worst enemies the antis know this.
There are plenty on the forums and social media that put down Deer contractors who shoot under licenses, but hypocrisy of it all is that a deer contractor would not think about charging guests to go shoot deer out of season or at night even though according to many deer contractors are unethical etc etc. How ethical is charging for pigeon shooting at £150 to £200 a day per person which are shot under GL.
GL's are not for sporting purposes.
Least the Gaming estates are shooting what they reared and put money and effort into.
GL's are not for sporting purposes.
Least the Gaming estates are shooting what they reared and put money and effort into.
badbob
Well-Known Member
The thin end of the wedge is starting to get more and more substantial.
"Wild Justice" has a whole list of projects for the future.
Deer stalking is reasonably safe as long as you dont enjoy it or do it recreationaly,
or until wild life birth control pills are perfected.
but just wait for the next Socialist Government .
"Wild Justice" has a whole list of projects for the future.
Deer stalking is reasonably safe as long as you dont enjoy it or do it recreationaly,
or until wild life birth control pills are perfected.
but just wait for the next Socialist Government .
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
Think I’ve signed all the Petitions going around ,including one to sack Lefty from the bbc lol.
Anybody seen the 12 page per field waiver you need to fill out from NE lol.
Carry on carrying on and feck them I say .
Anybody seen the 12 page per field waiver you need to fill out from NE lol.
Carry on carrying on and feck them I say .
Hey don't get me wrong I am against the decision that NE made as it seems overnight decisions can be made against our livelihood without having to go through parliament or being voted upon because of poorly written or poorl;y monitored legislation.
Someone asked me the other day, how are calibre - velocity - bullet grain and deer legislation policed,. My answer as always is the same , only when something goes wrong or something is reported.
We still have guys who refuse to get insured because it is not law and shoot pigeons with airguns off the roofs of houses without back stop.
We have a community that refuse to work with the authorities with even the simplest of tasks of phoning in when shooting at night, because its not law.
We have guys posting on social media claiming to shoot foxes at 1200yrds over the roofs of houses from one side of the valley to another.
We have guys applying for .338 Lapuas to shoot Sika.
And the list goes on and on and we wonder why the shooting community is being attacked.
Yes the majority of us try to stick by the law and want to do everything right.
I have spent the last 6 nights sitting over night in a field trying to get the animal that is ripping lambs a part know ful well its being done by badgers so I can provide video evidence to SNH that it is badgers that are killing the lambs and not foxes, because I want to do this right. I know it is a nigh on impossible task because SNH has NEVER issued a badger license in Scotland, however, because I am going through the right channels they are at least going to try and help.
Yes this effects the guys that are genuinely trying to work and protect their property and livestock and that in itself ****es me off, because yet again it effects those that are trying to do the right thing.
We all have to bare in mind, the majority of the population of the UK either do not care about shooting sports or are against it, there is still myths when speaking to those who don't know, that a lot of what we do is illegal, which we all know is bull. We all know what a majority vote can do eh, just look at the poop we are in over Brexit.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Following on from tullochs post.
While im not completely familiar with the precise wording on English GLs, did basc and others not appeal and manage to get the wording changed a few years ago.
Vaguely remember it was something about proving u had tried non lethal 1st
While im not completely familiar with the precise wording on English GLs, did basc and others not appeal and manage to get the wording changed a few years ago.
Vaguely remember it was something about proving u had tried non lethal 1st
badbob
Well-Known Member
This first attack is specifically aimed at wild birds, in particular,
the crow family and pigeons. (GLO4) These are covered ,or were, by the General Licence.
In practice we just carried on as normal, controlling numbers as best we could.
Woodpigeon were the poor mans sport. BUT in reality all wild birds are protected
and its illegal to kill or disturb them. So its only the exceptions in the legislation and General Licences
that allowed us to shoot them. Now suddenly we are outlaws if we want to go out and shoot a crow or a woodpigeon..
Next target will be wildfowl, game birds,woodcock, foxes badgers hares, rabbits, squirrels, then gun ownership,
Activists have a numerous ways of attacking us, criminal damage, intimidation, sabotage, civil dissobedience, infiltration into politics and statutory bodies, charites etc.
Now by crowdfunding, "WILD JUSTICE " is mounting legal challenges. Well at least this is lawful. Perhaps it might clear up ambiguous legislation,
but I fear not to our advantage.
the crow family and pigeons. (GLO4) These are covered ,or were, by the General Licence.
In practice we just carried on as normal, controlling numbers as best we could.
Woodpigeon were the poor mans sport. BUT in reality all wild birds are protected
and its illegal to kill or disturb them. So its only the exceptions in the legislation and General Licences
that allowed us to shoot them. Now suddenly we are outlaws if we want to go out and shoot a crow or a woodpigeon..
Next target will be wildfowl, game birds,woodcock, foxes badgers hares, rabbits, squirrels, then gun ownership,
Activists have a numerous ways of attacking us, criminal damage, intimidation, sabotage, civil dissobedience, infiltration into politics and statutory bodies, charites etc.
Now by crowdfunding, "WILD JUSTICE " is mounting legal challenges. Well at least this is lawful. Perhaps it might clear up ambiguous legislation,
but I fear not to our advantage.
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