I have read what is available but thanks for the heads up. How widely was it published ? I suggest not widely enough so perhaps the impediments to dissemination need to be looked at and circumvented ?
BASC will ensure views on Scotland general licences are expressed “loud and clear”
- Thread starter DebbieBASC
- Start date
- Status
I have read what is available but thanks for the heads up. How widely was it published ? I suggest not widely enough so perhaps the impediments to dissemination need to be looked at and circumvented ?
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say Langholm would be the best example to base many arguments on, study was a bit of a failure and pulled 3 years early. Even the stakeholder groups could barely agree on anything anyway ( esp 1 group)
To be honest it was always going to struggle to be a success the way it was set up
Otterburn , sailsbury or Allerton amongst others were tidier studies and yielded fairly conclusive results
To be honest it was always going to struggle to be a success the way it was set up
Otterburn , sailsbury or Allerton amongst others were tidier studies and yielded fairly conclusive results
Agreed Countryboy, but are SNH going to accept evidence obtained out with Scotland during their consultation?
Also worth noting that stakeholders in these types of studies rarely agree when they come from such polarised views
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
U'd definitely hope they'd take suitable studies from elsewhere esp if UK based and relevant habitat.
Not sure how many purely Scottish based studies they are, it should help now with GWCT having there own land in Scotland now.
U do have to wonder about such a big project ( 10 million quid +) and head keeper has never seen heather before. No commercial moor would ever do half wot they did ( plus 40 hour weeks, unheard off in keepering jobs)
From wot I heard it was only the 1 group that couldnae agree with anything, I doubt they could even agree it was raining looking out the same window
Not sure how many purely Scottish based studies they are, it should help now with GWCT having there own land in Scotland now.
U do have to wonder about such a big project ( 10 million quid +) and head keeper has never seen heather before. No commercial moor would ever do half wot they did ( plus 40 hour weeks, unheard off in keepering jobs)
From wot I heard it was only the 1 group that couldnae agree with anything, I doubt they could even agree it was raining looking out the same window
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
What Basc is doing very well is taking our money,making commitments then wriggling out on a technicality that baffles the layman .Ffs ,if they can’t act on our behalf then we may as well pull our pants down now because sure as hell its going to get far worse than not being able to shoot a few winged vermin .
The fact that Debbie what’s her face has a no reply stance says it all ,sore point since Dallas I know .
Where’s there character assassination of Cwis assburner Packham and co .
Where is all our money going ffs .(not mine obviously)
Basc = boring auld sinile codgers .
The fact that Debbie what’s her face has a no reply stance says it all ,sore point since Dallas I know .
Where’s there character assassination of Cwis assburner Packham and co .
Where is all our money going ffs .(not mine obviously)
Basc = boring auld sinile codgers .
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
It's no wonder Debbie can't/won't reply on here.
Basc her employers will have a duty of care which won't allow bullying or there staff or to be abused. David was on here replying for quite a long time far longer than most would off expected the abuse he came in for.
Sadly a few very vocal individuals are denying many others a valuable chance to communicate with basc and get extra info from them.
Some off u live in cloud cuckoo land with thier expections.
If any other org was doing anything I could sse the point But no org is making any headway.
Plenty other orgss make some grand claims they fail to live up too, and it could easily be argued that most TV, tabloids etc will go to basc before any other org making them more a 'voice' than anyone else.
Even Gerald seemed to make some valid points but has been completely rounded on, it's no wonder no 1 bothers saying anything positive about basc.
Is that really the level u want to drop to Fd, calling names and character assignation??
I'm truly glad basc or any other org has not stooped to such lows.
Hopefully theyll stick to reasoned debate and scientific evidence over insults
Basc her employers will have a duty of care which won't allow bullying or there staff or to be abused. David was on here replying for quite a long time far longer than most would off expected the abuse he came in for.
Sadly a few very vocal individuals are denying many others a valuable chance to communicate with basc and get extra info from them.
Some off u live in cloud cuckoo land with thier expections.
If any other org was doing anything I could sse the point But no org is making any headway.
Plenty other orgss make some grand claims they fail to live up too, and it could easily be argued that most TV, tabloids etc will go to basc before any other org making them more a 'voice' than anyone else.
Even Gerald seemed to make some valid points but has been completely rounded on, it's no wonder no 1 bothers saying anything positive about basc.
Is that really the level u want to drop to Fd, calling names and character assignation??
I'm truly glad basc or any other org has not stooped to such lows.
Hopefully theyll stick to reasoned debate and scientific evidence over insults
Nobody can say BASC has fulfilled its obligation to shooting over the last 3 issues. You all know what they were.
I am not saying the others have done any better but CA is leading in considered responses IMHO. The point really is there is inadequate representation, strategic thinking and aggressive response to any issues from anyone who claims to represent shooting.
It is all the more serious at BASC because they employ 130 odd staff - no other organisation employs as many and therefore their success rates are significantly lower per pound of members money or per hour of staff time. Note I said 'lower' rather than 'lamentable'.
Take NGO and buzzards as an example - assisted by additional funding from members. They seem the only org to take risks financially when needed.
BASC have a stranglehold on forums relying on their funding ads etc. to manage 'loyalty' to the BASC brand.
PW closes and has closed this thread by DebbieBASC already with maybe 3 negative comments, I wonder why and David still posts on there.
They deny this type of posting is propaganda but suggest its news and yet its posted with no responses being given, as I have mentioned before.
I dont want to hear BASC news - I can get it from their website thanks. If you believe BASC you are the one guilty of self-delusion, or are hoping to retain their 'patronage'.
Either way it is not the right thing to do for shooting's future.
I very much admire this site which, whilst expecting reasonable behaviour, will not bend to BASC's control - this issue has been mentioned before.
Criticise BASC and they withdraw advertising revenue - that is overt coercion and does not deal with their failing performance, only improvement will do that.
I am not saying the others have done any better but CA is leading in considered responses IMHO. The point really is there is inadequate representation, strategic thinking and aggressive response to any issues from anyone who claims to represent shooting.
It is all the more serious at BASC because they employ 130 odd staff - no other organisation employs as many and therefore their success rates are significantly lower per pound of members money or per hour of staff time. Note I said 'lower' rather than 'lamentable'.
Take NGO and buzzards as an example - assisted by additional funding from members. They seem the only org to take risks financially when needed.
BASC have a stranglehold on forums relying on their funding ads etc. to manage 'loyalty' to the BASC brand.
PW closes and has closed this thread by DebbieBASC already with maybe 3 negative comments, I wonder why and David still posts on there.
They deny this type of posting is propaganda but suggest its news and yet its posted with no responses being given, as I have mentioned before.
I dont want to hear BASC news - I can get it from their website thanks. If you believe BASC you are the one guilty of self-delusion, or are hoping to retain their 'patronage'.
Either way it is not the right thing to do for shooting's future.
I very much admire this site which, whilst expecting reasonable behaviour, will not bend to BASC's control - this issue has been mentioned before.
Criticise BASC and they withdraw advertising revenue - that is overt coercion and does not deal with their failing performance, only improvement will do that.
jimbo1984
Well-Known Member
There’s none so blind as those that will not see
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
The problem with BOTH the BASC and with the British NRA is that both claim to be "the voice" of their respective shooting sports. Therefore if you claim that "power" then you also have to then assume the "responsibility"" to effectively not only represent but also defend what you claim that you are the body that speaks for it.
It seems to me that it is unfair to criticise the smaller organisations when by claiming to be shooting's "the voice" that the BASC (and to a lesser extent the NRA) then acquire members who might otherwise have gone to those lesser organisations were it not for the BASC claiming that it is it, the BASC, that is "the voice".
BASC has how many staff? And how much income from membership? That is the nub. As others eloquently said its success rate per Pound seems lamentable. As far back as Blair's reduction of the hereditary members of the House or Lords to ninety-two elected hereditary peers I suggested that BASC try to "endorse" those pre-shooting candidates for that and future House of Lords elections. Yet have they ever?
Indeed will they be doing so during the forthcoming elections for the future Conservative Party Leader either whilst it is the MPs that uniquely have the vote or later when the two final candidates go head-to-head before the Party's entire membership. Or will this be another wasted chance?
Indeed is BASC now lobbying those individual members to even yet now...whilst the vote is still for MPs only...to write to their Constituency Association urging that their MP support X or Y? Perhaps Debbie or David might have "welcomed" this chance to try to have a pro-shooting PM by lobbying the political party who he or she will come from?
The SACS, the NGO, and the others have how many? Yet they seem to often punch far above their true weight whilst the BASC seems to be a colossus with a reluctance to commit but even a fraction of its supposed UKP 8 Million reserves (is that really a true figure) on legal action such as judicial review of the actions of Police Scotland or Lincolnshire Police regarding medical checks.
Last edited:
BASC do have a phone line for comms you know.
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Bang heads...brick walls! When the BASC published, and it is STILL on their website, their guidance for wild boar calibres they went with .270 WCF as their minimum suggested calibre.
I called them on the telephone (at that time I was still a member) to point out that scores, hundreds, thousands on the continent used and considered the 6.5x55 and before that the old 6.5x54MS as perfectly adequate and more than capable on ANY wild boar. That, indeed, the traditional "pencil" 160 grain bullet of the original loadings in both 6.5x55 and 6.5x54MS were actually better performers on boar than the most any standard factory .270 WCF American loading. My comments were dismissed almost offhand by the person in the BASC Firearms Department that took the call.
And still that ".270 WCF" minimum persists on the BASC website. Yet does anybody here or in the real world think that with that heavy "pencil" 160 grain traditional bullet that 6.5x55 and 6.5x54MS aren't adequate for any boar? Absolute nonsense from BASC.
So do they have a 'phone line? Yes. But what's the point? I might as well indeed have gone outside and found the nearest brick wall and banged my head upon it. And that was near a decade ago!
Last edited:
Was at the Highclere Gamefair today (Berks) and there was the main BASC tent, and just off at a diagonal was the NGO tent. Chris Green's latest decoys were being demo'ed impotently in the BASC tent. I felt like saying it as it is, but there were too many good ol' volunteers in the BASC tent, plus the usual salaried and superannuated employees. I then thought what was the point of it all. A display of pigeon decoys and a video playing in the background, I doubt that even Chris could get up the enthusiasm to attend in person. No more pigeon shooting in 2019, even in 2020?
Everything about the BASC tent had a smell of death and decay, like taxidermy of a bygone era, worm eaten and dusty old pieces. Curiosities, the entire shebang. Nothing so impotent and irrelevant. The gamefair season upon us, and what is BASC's strategy? What can they claim to their credit as the voice of shooting, fully engaged and all that. If this is to be the denouement of sporting shooting, even the Alamo, then I think the NGO tent will be the last redoubt. With just a fraction of the funds of BASC, at least that organisation managed to get a JR off the ground and win against NE. 3-man Wild Justice brought NE to heel with the mere threat of a JR. But the mighty BASC, £9m plus in the bank, presiding over the last days of shooting, heads in the sand, in complete denial and utterly ill-equipped in terms of personnel to fight for the rights of shooters. It is one surrender after another. Where are the 10-year certificates traded for increased fees? Just how inept could BASC become over the medical fees fiasco? They imagine they have political influence, hence no JR.
I had nothing but admiration for the NGO tent. The staff there had a swagger about them. They stood tall for their gamekeeper constituents. They won. Morale must be very high.
How BASC even dare to front up is beyond me.
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
Keep paying your subs mate ,I hear the snaps is getting low and ones Range Rover needs replacing .
Sadly true, and I think the reason why is, the NGO is staffed by keepers or retired keepers, BASC I feel is staffed by at best hobby shooters. I've said it before but I think BASC have become the career politicians of the shooting community, and are acting as such by not listening to grass roots members as they know best
But is that the actual poster, I always assumed debbiebasc wasn't a real person, although I agree the picture shouldn't have been posted in this thread
- Status
Similar threads
