General License and Pigeon Shooting

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T

Tazz

Well-Known Member
Having spoken to the BASC guy at Highclere at the weekend and having now read through the stuff on the BASC web site here is my understanding of the changes to the General License with regard to pigeon shooting. I am happy to be corrected if anyone can post better info and help out other SD members on other pest species that would be great

Pigeons are covered by a new general License GL31 you do not have to make an application for this License but carrying a copy would be a good idea. The License “requires” the individual operating under it to

Be the farmer or crop owner or be acting upon the farmers behalf

Have tried non lethal options, bangers scarecrows etc where practicable

Made a judgement that the crop damage is “significant”

Keep a simple Fact Log, locations, crops, numbers shot dates

You only now need to apply for an individual license if what you are doing falls outside the GL31

Happy to be corrected

Tazz
 
That's not the message I got from the NE top brass being grilled by the EFRA Committee. If you are aware that other methods will not work then you can go straight in with lethal control. Ditto for shooting over stubble or birds on the way to roost. NE were at pains to state that for the end user there is no practical difference in the application of the new licence(s) compared to the old GLs.

Have a look at the evidence session from 16:00:30 onward and particularly 16:04:30 when the chairman Neil Parish gives practical examples for them to comment on.

EFRA Committee Grill NE

Happy to discuss as always but keeping records to ‘prove’ something which isn’t illegal always plays into the hands of those seeking further restrictions.
 
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Fully agree with you Orion. What is the point of using a method that has no effect at all but, point 7 of my individual licenses note that
"Methods of killing must only be used in conjunction with, and to reinforce, additional non-lethal scaring measures. Reasonable endeavors must continue to be made to resolve the problem using appropriate lawful methods alongside use of the license".
"Reasonable endeavors" is open to a whole world of argument as what one will see as un-economical or impracticable another may see as perfectly acceptable and a must before shooting is used
 
And as usual they expect us to comply with the bureaucratic bollocks,
If the farmer rings you up and says I have a flock on my crops come now, who has time to bother with the drivel !
 
I am hopeful but not exactly confident that someone will recognise the obvious gulf of understanding and whilst they may not shoot, recognise that 'GUILT' is not confirmed by someone shooting pests or pigeons. I also live in hope that the CA and NGO will continue their good work to date and ensure we have a GL fit for 'everyday purpose'. However with the hiatus over the Cons leadership issues, an answer is unlikely to be found before next week ends. So much for the pressure we can collectively apply. I still have had no response from NE about my request for a licence to shoot crows and magpies in England - about 200m from my front door.
NE should, on the basis of the 'work' they have done so far, be disbanded and people of understanding not prejudice replace them at DEFRA.
 
Pigeon can be shot under the new General Licence, just like the old GL lethal control can still be used to protect crops as long as non lethal methods have been tried and or are still being used but are not effective. In other words, lethal control is part of the overall pest control program. Simplified and up to date guidance is on the BASC web site.
Defra have yet to respond to the consultation, but I have heard that some members have started to lobby their MP to put press site on Defra to move positively on this issue.
BASC will keep up the pressure on Defra to get this sorted
Yahoo
David
 
David BASC said:
Pigeon can be shot under the new General Licence, just like the old GL lethal control can still be used to protect crops as long as non lethal methods have been tried and or are still being used but are not effective. In other words, lethal control is part of the overall pest control program. Simplified and up to date guidance is on the BASC web site.
Click to expand...

Do you have a link to that?

All I can find is General Licences - Latest Update which just links to the Gov.UK website for the GLs.

There still appears to be much 'confusion' over the practicalities of operating under the 'new and improved' licence(s) with 'requirements' to adhere to certain aspects of them being advocated - keeping logs etc. - when in fact there's no such thing, so why increase the burden on legitimate shooters?

If you look at the video of the hearing, the NE Witnesses, (well Marian Spain & Lord Blencathra anyway, forget Tony 'I know nothing' Juniper), are quite adamant that lethal control can be undertaken straight away if it's known that other deterrents have failed in the past, and that shooting can be undertaken away from the crop itself, or even when crops are not directly threatened as part of a year round control regime.
 
So, at the moment there's still a big gulf between how the new GLs are being interpreted by the 'shooting' users and their organisations, and what the NE top brass are stating in public, (or when they're put on the spot by the EFRA Committee)!
 
In what way? The licences clearly state that you can use lethal control of pigeons if other methods are still in use or have been shown to be ineffective or not economically viable. eg. Netting crops can be effective, but its not viable if you have a 5 acre field of peas!
 
ChanonryMac said:
Is there a pigeon shooting forum ???

Us stalkers are getting bored with you pigeon guys bleating on and moaning about BASC the whole time. Here's 10p...
Click to expand...
I stalk. And I shoot (...shot) pigeons. And I shoot rats. And Foxes. And rabbits. And I don't bleat on. And nor do I moan about BASC the whole time. But thanks for the unwarranted and unfounded generalisation anyway.

.......But here's a thought: if you don't want to be subjected to reading about pigeon shooting and potentially what the current situation may mean for other shooting disciplines in the future in terms of legislative impact such as, ooooh I don't know, let's pick one at random...... stalking (which could affect "us stalkers"), then how about not reading a thread titled "General Licence and pigeon shooting"?
 
MERLIN makes a relevant point. Governments have a habit of recycling rubbish bfrim the wastebasket of discredited legislation.

The 1988 Firearms Act that banned some rifles was, Colin Greenwood used to say, the 1973 Green Paper given a re-evaluation tread.

In fact he used harsher language but that's by the by.

So yes will eventually managers of woodlands be told to try individual tree guards to control deer damage before shooting is permitted?
 
So what happened to the idea that Gove was allegedly considering to make pigeons a game bird? The Tory Party leader vacancy, I guess. If it was ever a real possibility anyway.
 
What we got now in the terms of general licences is all we are going to get we ain't even got one for corvids for crop protection
So em carry on
 
I would suggest everyone that can apply for the relevant licences to shoot what they used too. I suspect that eventually defra or Natural England will look at how the licences have been dealt with and think it has worked ok so will leave things as they are. I applied for three different licences for one farm expecting to be restricted to one farm and they came back with I could shoot in any county in England. There is still a huge gulf of situations that aren’t covered by the licences but I can’t see it being sorted any time soon. And it was so good the get back on the corvids yesterday
 
While I accept that not all Stalkers shoot pigeons and so have no interest in the subject as Merlin pointed out I did entitle it General License and Pigeon Shooting as a clue to the subject. It’s good that many on SD have filled in the questioner and Emailed NE and DEFRA re the General License it puts pressure on them to come up with a workable response. I also believe that the shooting community should stand together across all the disciplines we are already a minority let’s not sub divide in to smaller factions that have even less influence, just my opinion
 
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