enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
I've applied for my PSC1 (that's Powder Storage Certificate 1) so after the weekend when it's done and £200 I'll be all OK. Except having now spent that money I'll now be able to afford neither box nor powder.
powder storage
- Thread starter bluesako
- Start date
bluesako
Well-Known Member
thanks guys for all your great input, i was more peturbed about the responce i got from basc, and they call themselves the voice of the shooter,what a laugh, anyway i got my nice shiny wooden box and put my powder in it, so basc hang your head in shame, you are not a voice of the shooter, far from it, you have just lost another member. bs.You going to ask him to produce the documentation that states you must do it?
Explosives Regulations 2014
Page 100 onwards - note ‘should’ not ‘must’.
bluesako,
This is the reply (took some time to find among my emails!) I got from BASC, when I asked the same question as you did, which is why I suggested you went back to them and asked the question again in writing as nothing has changed with ER2014 since June 2019.
Dear Mr Liveonce,
Under the 15 kilo storage threshold (which does not require a storage licence) Hazard type 1.3 smokeless powder is not subject to separation distances, therefore it does NOT need to go in the box. Black Powder is HT 1.1 and is subject to separation distances, unless its stored in the wooden box which reduces it to HT 1.3 (same as nitro).
The HSE uses the term “shooters powders” in relation to its L series guidance documents (the box specifications).
Shooters powders covers both black and nitro and their respective HT status; but as stated; above only shooters powder (HT 1.1 black powder) subject to separation distances is required to be stored in the box.
If dealers have a storage licence and wish to keep powders in wooden boxes they can and over 30 kilos they will insist on wooden boxes as the stockpile will behave differently.
It is recommended that shops display empty bottles or an example bottle rather than fill their shelves with bottles. This guide may help you - http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg477.pdf
I hope this helps?
Best wishes
Matthew Perring
Senior Firearms Officer
Firearms Department
The British Association for Shooting and Conservation
Marford Mill
Rossett
Wrexham
LL12 0HL
This is the reply (took some time to find among my emails!) I got from BASC, when I asked the same question as you did, which is why I suggested you went back to them and asked the question again in writing as nothing has changed with ER2014 since June 2019.
Subject:RE: Explosive Regulations 2014
Dear Mr Liveonce,
Under the 15 kilo storage threshold (which does not require a storage licence) Hazard type 1.3 smokeless powder is not subject to separation distances, therefore it does NOT need to go in the box. Black Powder is HT 1.1 and is subject to separation distances, unless its stored in the wooden box which reduces it to HT 1.3 (same as nitro).
The HSE uses the term “shooters powders” in relation to its L series guidance documents (the box specifications).
Shooters powders covers both black and nitro and their respective HT status; but as stated; above only shooters powder (HT 1.1 black powder) subject to separation distances is required to be stored in the box.
If dealers have a storage licence and wish to keep powders in wooden boxes they can and over 30 kilos they will insist on wooden boxes as the stockpile will behave differently.
It is recommended that shops display empty bottles or an example bottle rather than fill their shelves with bottles. This guide may help you - http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg477.pdf
I hope this helps?
Best wishes
Matthew Perring
Senior Firearms Officer
Firearms Department
The British Association for Shooting and Conservation
Marford Mill
Rossett
Wrexham
LL12 0HL
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bluesako
Well-Known Member
hi guys, right ive just had a phone call from basc about the information i was given by them yesterday, RIGHT you DONT need a secure wooden box to store your powder in, it is not law, you can store up to 15 kilo,s , i bought one of these boxes yesterday, so i will use it to store my powder, i said a few choice words about basc yesterday on here, and i am publicly apologizing to basc on here, thanks again basc for sorting this problem out, and i take it back i will be taking out a new subscription with you in april, once again many thanks bs
Hopefully BASC will also have words with your FEO after all it was they, not BASC that you were put in this position in the first place and if not corrected at source others may be put in a similar position.
By the way, without a storage licence that 15kg max is total NEQ (net explosive quantity) so also include powder in loaded ammo and cartridges.
By the way, without a storage licence that 15kg max is total NEQ (net explosive quantity) so also include powder in loaded ammo and cartridges.
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Nitro has never needed special storage, just as it doesn't need a licence - blackpowder needs a licence - dont know whether thats quantity or rather common sense related but your FEO needs to go back to school.
DONT buy any boxes unless its because you CHOOSE to.
Nice to see BASC are up to speed on firearms/reloading regulations as well " Voice of Shooting" a bit 'infected today ?
Its probably because most licensing is done by the same people and they don't want you to know they are dangerously useless at it. -----
The following pages offer advice and guidance for the grant and renewal of Firearms, Shotgun and Explosives Certificates, Registered Firearms Dealers and ...
DONT buy any boxes unless its because you CHOOSE to.
Nice to see BASC are up to speed on firearms/reloading regulations as well " Voice of Shooting" a bit 'infected today ?
Its probably because most licensing is done by the same people and they don't want you to know they are dangerously useless at it. -----
The following pages offer advice and guidance for the grant and renewal of Firearms, Shotgun and Explosives Certificates, Registered Firearms Dealers and ...
Likewise...mines in the most stable cool temperature in the house and no that's not the fridge freezer!
bluesako
Well-Known Member
cheers, hats of to basc , i got my powder box this morning so i will be using it, but its nice to know you dont need one, if this helps someone,else in the same trouble, and thanks liveonce i dont hold alot of loaded rounds, phew i feel a bit better now i might have a wee tot tonight bs
Kes, that is a common misunderstanding with shooters, and is not correct since the introduction of ER2014 unless one of the following below apply, which exempts you, you DO need a licence to acquire and keep smokeless powder.
And if you have a licensed store and store a lot of it special storage does apply like separation distances.
It‘s all in the detail of ER2014.
(1) hold a firearms certificate granted under section 27 of that Act; or
(2) hold a shotgun certificate granted under section 28 of that Act; or
(3) hold a permit granted under section 17 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 or
(4) registered as a firearms dealer under section 33 of the Firearms Act 1968.
liveonce
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Ryan f
Well-Known Member
ha ha ha bet its in there now cooling off lolLikewise...mines in the most stable cool temperature in the house and no that's not the fridge freezer!
As far as I was aware this requirement is for black powder
I think this FEO is making it up as he goes along
I think this FEO is making it up as he goes along
Hahahahahahahhaaaaaaa!!!... Now why didn't I think of that option... I feel a powder storage move coming on at the weekend!..
[emoji1360][emoji482]So then 'Liveonce', if I am understanding your post correctly(??) if we own a current FAC - as the vast majority of us on S.D. do - then we are EXEMPT from the need to gain ourselves one of these much discussed propellant powder licences as long as it is NITRO Powder ONLY...
Have I translated what you are saying correctly please mate??
ATB ..... and shoot safely
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
OTOH BASC do say that at Certificate renewal that you will need a large A4 paper envelope. To put the compulsory medical report in that because they failed to assert a judicial review some forces now insist all applicants require to submit. Don't apologise to BASC. They've done enough harm by inaction on this latter topic that if any apology is to be want it should be from them to their members.
Yep so long as you have a valid firearms or shotgun certificate you are exempt from needing a separate licence to acquire and keep smokeless powder, which is good common sense by the HSE.
When buying the shop should ask to see your FAC or SGC and record the details for their records to comply with ER2014 as it is treated as a relevant explosive.
it is all part of the track and trace process in theory to make it hard for a terrorist to obtain explosives.
We should not think badly of this as in some EU countries they are I believe restricted to holding a lot less smokeless 2kg? than we are.
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
Here in Germany the requirement for BP is storage in a steel container (I did the relevant course 8 years ago to get the permission to obtain & keep license). I could not believe it as I had a BP UK permission earlier where wooden container was stated but the explosive expert doing the course confirmed steel as correct. So grenade building is allowed over here.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Do they insist you make the hinges out of flints too...?
Flippin' Heck 'BavarianBrit'!!!... That does NOT make any common sense whatsoever does it? .? One assumes that these STEEL BOXES of the German B.P. Home Storage System have quite large exhaust port/holes in them to allow hi-pressure gases to escape quickly and easily in the defo unwanted event of a fire in the immediate vicinity etc?? Otherwise, as you seem to understand all too well, a really nasty friggin' BOMB thou hast!!??
OH My!!!.....
ATB ..... and shoot safely (and perhaps I should also add STORE SAFELY on my closing statement too eh?
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