The Decline of BSA (Birmingham Small Arms)

[User00040]

Hi all,

I've been going through old threads here and found Brithunter's (where did he go?) appreciation for BSA's sporting rifles (Monarch, Majestic, and finally the CF2) very very interesting.

It seems that BSA were making rifles from the 50's-70's that fit into the market that Tikka take up today, a sporting rifle that is accurate and feature rich for the price.

Stocks were made for use with scopes, dovetail mounting as well. Barrels hand lapped and cut rifled, triggers adjustable and overall the lightest in class.

Although there are many BSA's still floating about their centre fire rifle making days are long gone. Air rifles are still made under the BSA name but nothing else.

For a company that used to make such a vast array of machinery it is a very sorry decline, I've walked around the Gun Quarter in Birmingham and its hard to imagine that used to be the epicentre of UK firearms production. Now just a bunch of empty shops and ruined buildings waiting to be pulled down for parking spaces.

What was the cause? A cursory glance seems to indicate that the gun works were one of the very few of BSA's profitable enterprises by the time it was wound up, but there was little commercial interest in manufacturing rifles.

I have seen @Bavarianbrit post about his days with BSA and would really like to hear more from anyone with knowledge on the subject.

Thanks!

 

[spiker76]

Brithunter= Banned i think

 

[User00040]

The small arms part is not mentioned but here is a video documenting how the motorcycle production went downhill.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

BSA was located in Armoury Road Small Heath, the gun quarter was over Aston way and was took down for spaghetti junction I believe. The jewelry quarter was there too, some guy I heard bought a condemned factory and had all the floorboards lifted and then vacuumed the gold dust up before it was demolished.
The stock shop was a nice trip for me most days as two of us were the cutting oil gofers for the whole training centre, he is still a good mate (150 apprentices in total from BSA bikes, BSA Redditch not sure what they made and we three from BSA Carbodies in Coventry) so it was a blast up the A45 at 100 mph in a Ford Zodiac 6 cyl taxi every day which was fun as we would get there early and have a cuppa with buttered toast at a nearby cafe before reporting in for work.
Behind the training centre was the BSA test track where they had the job of just testing it seemed every bike they produced. At the far end of the track onto Golden Hillock Road was the Parker Hale business that we could walk into if we felt like it. And just down the road was the Greaves moto cross bike factory.
The training milling machine teacher was making himself a .45acp Colt 1911 A1 from drawings he had found in the drawing office left over from WW2.
What they taught me ref basic engineering is still good today as I still use these memories when I do my metalworking. Shame that the gov"t do not support the apprenticeship way anymore only NVQ"s (not very qualified"s).
Chicken pie in the works canteen was a dream meal.
Just outside the canteen at the main gate there was a robbery of the Friday"s wages delivery van for the whole plant so it must have been on a Friday morning late 1965 or early 1966.
There is a shortened barrel 30-06 laying at the bottom of a brummie canal from those days but that is for another day.

 

[enfieldspares]

What was the cause?

It'd be easy to say that it was the fault of anti-gun law in the UK. But then, of course, BSA never made pistols (well OK yes they did make some but people know what I meant) and stopped making side by side shotguns when in WWII their production line for those was destroyed.

So whilst a valid argument could be made that anti-gun law had an effect on Webley and the "double whammy" of the Webley factory being knocked down there must be more to it than that. So what is it?

Lack of government contracts (either UK, its Dominions, its colonies or overseas nations such as Siam aka Thailand), a huge surplus of military weapons after WWII pretty much did for BSA. That and that the Government wanted to source as much as it could its weapons from its own factories at Enfield and elsewhere rather than go to what was, after all, a private contractor.

So, yes, there were BSA made SLR rifles but effectively the "good old days" of an open ended contract to make SMLE and, at BSA Shirley the No4 and No5 were gone and done.

Then with the end of National Service the army was once more losing infantry battalions left right and centre so again had a surplus of rifles. It's complicated but the simple answer is "government contracts".

As to the sporting guns there's no doubt that BSA could have been the Beretta of Britain. But the fault of that and of Webley is that those that made the decisions saw the market being side-by-side game guns and not over-and-under clay guns.

 

[User00040]

It'd be easy to say that it was the fault of anti-gun law in the UK. But then, of course, BSA never made pistols (well OK yes they did make some but people know what I meant) and stopped making side by side shotguns when in WWII their production line for those was destroyed.

So whilst a valid argument could be made that anti-gun law had an effect on Webley and the "double whammy" of the Webley factory being knocked down there must be more to it than that. So what is it?

Lack of government contracts (either UK, its Dominions, its colonies or overseas nations such as Siam aka Thailand), a huge surplus of military weapons after WWII pretty much did for BSA. That and that the Government wanted to source as much as it could its weapons from its own factories at Enfield and elsewhere rather than go to what was, after all, a private contractor.

So, yes, there were BSA made SLR rifles but effectively the "good old days" of an open ended contract to make SMLE and, at BSA Shirley the No4 and No5 were gone and done.

Then with the end of National Service the army was once more losing infantry battalions left right and centre so again had a surplus of rifles. It's complicated but the simple answer is "government contracts".

As to the sporting guns there's no doubt that BSA could have been the Beretta of Britain. But the fault of that and of Webley is that those that made the decisions saw the market being side-by-side game guns and not over-and-under clay guns.

Cheers for the insights guys. I was fortunate enough to have a walk round Westley Richards last year which was a real eye opener, got me thinking about fieldsports in general and how Britain has gone from being the epicentre to what it is now.

Had a good chat with a gunsmith the other day who occasionally refurbishes BSA sporting rifles. Hard to see how a company that made a rifles 50 years ago with all the features you would want today go bust.

At least there are enough examples floating around to remind us of that fact. Seems they are appreciated more abroad then they are over here.

 

[HandB]

I own two BSA Hunters; a .222 short action from 1954 and a 7x57mm medium action from 1955. They are nicely made, light rifles with BSA's beefy interpretation of the Mauser action. They shoot reasonably well (about 1.5MOA) but need glass bedding as the actions are not firm in the stocks, presumably due to wood shrinkage over the last 65 years. Here's the 7mm.

 

[bullet chucker]

Cheers for the insights guys. I was fortunate enough to have a walk round Westley Richards last year which was a real eye opener, got me thinking about fieldsports in general and how Britain has gone from being the epicentre to what it is now.

Had a good chat with a gunsmith the other day who occasionally refurbishes BSA sporting rifles. Hard to see how a company that made a rifles 50 years ago with all the features you would want today go bust.

At least there are enough examples floating around to remind us of that fact. Seems they are appreciated more abroad then they are over here.

Then it something to have MADE IN ENGLAND stamped on your treasures.

BC.

 

[User00040]

I own two BSA Hunters; a .222 short action from 1954 and a 7x57mm medium action from 1955. They are nicely made, light rifles with BSA's beefy interpretation of the Mauser action. They shoot reasonably well (about 1.5MOA) but need glass bedding as the actions are not firm in the stocks, presumably due to wood shrinkage over the last 65 years. Here's the 7mm.

View attachment 160127

Thanks for sharing, real beauty with a nice scope, I am envious!

Regarding the stocks, the gunsmith who restores BSA's that I spoke to also recommended the same procedure along with aluminium pillars.

 

[User00040]

Catalogue photos from the glory days, these were adverts in American mags hence the $ instead of £.

 

[lincolnjefferies]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that a damning review of the CF2 in the Shooting Times in the 80's by possibly Richard Prior, may have hastened the fall in sales.

 

[Alantoo]

I've been going through old threads here and found Brithunter's (where did he go?)

Brithunter last posted on Hunter's Life in 2017 as far as I can tell.......saying he and his mother were living in Eastern Europe looking to buy somewhere out in the countryside.

Alan

 

[hybridfiat]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that a damning review of the CF2 in the Shooting Times in the 80's by possibly Richard Prior, may have hastened the fall in sales.

Steve Phillips
I have a CF2 in .223 in perfect condition.
Feature wood stock, handcut checkering, 3 way adjustable trigger and a Tobler heavy varmint SS barrel, a Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x50, bipod, rear stock pin, pillar bedding and a sling. It weighs in at 14lbs. Ridiculously heavy!
It has the CF2 bolt which has a grooved, polished, sleek shroud and a cocking indicator.
The Monarch has the squared off shroud and they are NOT interchangeable. The locking lugs on the Monarch are have different dimensions. It shoots (in the right hands) 1/2" at 200yds .
It is beautifully made and finished. Better than any American rifle available at the time and easily the equivalent standard of a Sako or Sauer.
It cost me (sans scope) AU$450.
A bloody bargain!

 

[icedog]

I feel very fortunate to have purchased a "Majestic Deluxe" in 30-06 a few years ago for just over $400 Canadian. The gentleman who sold it to me said it had been his dad's lightly used moose & deer hunting rifle for a number of years. I knew very little about BSA rifles at the time ... well, actually I must admit I still don't know a whole lot about them.
I gave the rifle a very thorough cleaning, touched up the blueing in a couple small spots, gave the stock a full refinish with hand rubbed tung oil, and mounted a scope on it. In my opinion at least, it's a real beauty. I'm a reloader, and already had on hand all the gear and supplies needed to get it shooting well. I like the Majestic well enough that I certainly will not hesitate if the opportunity to purchase another in a different cartridge ever presents itself ... a 270 would be really nice!

Caberslash ... enjoyed seeing the vintage ad for the Majestic ... many thanks for posting it.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

The BSA gun side of the business was small fry as the majority of the income came from Motorcycle sales, the others were sidelines. The Japanese motorbike storm into the British market in the early 70"s killed off the very conservatively managed company.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I have found a factory layout plan.
15 was our apprentice training centre.
47 was the gun stocking shop.
80 was the Motoplas bike accessory production.
78 was the canteen.
2 was the admin/drawing office.
On the other side of Armoury Road was the motorbike production plant spread out on many floors.
The second picture is the main entrance on the road between 78 & 65 try walking out of there with a long thing stuffed down a trouser leg!.
Picture 3 is the sad end taken in 1988.

 

[Sampo]

Slightly off topic, but like Royal Enfield, found that BSA still makes and markets bicycles in India - BSA India

The logo is still the same with 3 rifles (at the top of the page) but guess the rest of it has been adopted to the modern Indian market.

 

[enfieldspares]

That's a fantastic map BB. Have you ever approached Birmingham Museums? As it's certain they'd maybe be interested in doing an oral record of your time there. And maybe a colour photocopy of the map. For your recollection and such documents (too often thrown in a dustbin as "Dad's junk") once lost are lost forever.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Here is an ariel (pun intended) view of the rear of the factory showing the test track Parker Hale were located just off the middle left on the picture where the track is split.
Pic 5 is showing the inside of the guns area.

 

[enfieldspares]

My memories of it are coming into Birmingham by car and seeing it from the then dual carriageway being demolished. With each time you came there being less and less of it.