swaro79
Well-Known Member
now that would saying,this is model 1 off 1 just let me know if you want one
Sako 75 and 85 rifles are obsolete, long live the S20
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antsa
Well-Known Member
Interesting reading here. None of the scenarios worry me. I have four 85s in a range of calibres that cover all my needs. I do not care too much about what happens to the model line up. I'm covered until I'm in the box. Think that Sako will keep a stock of spare parts for the 75s and 85s for a good while.
I also have an AI from the mid 1970s. The cocking piece at the rear of the firing pin snapped off last week. Was worried that the rifle would be heading for the bin but after a few words with Beretta Australia a complete new firing pin assembly arrived yesterday. Not bad for 45 year old product.
Cheers
I also have an AI from the mid 1970s. The cocking piece at the rear of the firing pin snapped off last week. Was worried that the rifle would be heading for the bin but after a few words with Beretta Australia a complete new firing pin assembly arrived yesterday. Not bad for 45 year old product.
Cheers
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
We have dad's old Sako Vixen (mid '70's vintage); correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the groove cut in the bolt face permit the cartridge to be (reliably) ejected by the contact of the fixed 'kicker' part of the action, which this groove is designed to enable it to so do? (You can tell I'm not a real rifles-mith, lol) To my mind this feature obviates the need for a spring-plunger type ejector; the claw is indeed rotating, but then again the pressures involved with the short action calibre it was designed for should not make this a cause for any great concern.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Er, I should perhaps qualify the rotating claw bit once we've had a proper look as I now think that is wrong, sorry 
, but there is a side guide bar thingy that definitely rotates!
, but there is a side guide bar thingy that definitely rotates!
That, AFAIK, is correct. There's no ejector in the bolt: the ejector is a sticky-up bit at the rear of the receiver.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
I bow to your superior technological understanding, but agree, ours has that sticky-up bit too! AFAIK it's taken from the old Mauser '98 action design, simple and reliable, elegant.
Is the S30 the one with built in nightvision and thermal?
Jagare
Well-Known Member
Yes mate. It will have all the bells and whistles that the boy racers of the stalking world require . Rumour has it the new S30 will have wifi and bluetooth fitted as standard. Tis what wet dreams are made of
A lot of good stuff in a 98 action. So good in fact why don't more people use them?
David.
A comparison of rifles you never owned, to a rifle you have never owned (or probably never seen), from someone who I assume isn’t a custom rifle smith?
The proof of the pudding is that well used 75’s still cost approximately what they did brand new, that custom rifle smiths revere the actions (especially 75’s). The engineering tolerances are superior.
The modern trend in rifles is flash, synthetic thumbholes, and mysteriously high price tags. The s20 looks like the R8s inbred rural cousin. Sakos most modern rifles like the A7 have been a mess compared to 75s, foresters etc, I’d anticipate the s20 being the same under the beretta price cutting regime.
The proof of the pudding is that well used 75’s still cost approximately what they did brand new, that custom rifle smiths revere the actions (especially 75’s). The engineering tolerances are superior.
The modern trend in rifles is flash, synthetic thumbholes, and mysteriously high price tags. The s20 looks like the R8s inbred rural cousin. Sakos most modern rifles like the A7 have been a mess compared to 75s, foresters etc, I’d anticipate the s20 being the same under the beretta price cutting regime.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
I'd hold off for the Radio Embedded (remote loose supervision enabled) S40 RE; I hear it's going to give owners an automatic pass to DSC L5, just getting clearance by Home office now, due out 01.04.21, look for the hunting magazine moneyshots and associated emissions about it
Have you ever compared two cars that you have never owned or perhaps seen? If so, unless you are an automotive engineer, such comparisons must be completely invalid?
If you read my original post carefully, the purpose of writing and posting it on a public forum was to invite debate. I asked for factual criticism and duly received some constructive comments.
I don't doubt that the 75 is a good action, but it has flaws (all designs have compromises). Nostalgia or aesthetics do play a large part in the purchase of any product, so this applies to rifles as well. People tend to forget features like the 'Key Concept' bolt shroud which was hailed as innovative when it came out but later deleted. If the 75 action is the holy grail, why do they ever come up for sale on here? Surely, you just keep the action and re-barrel it as necessary to pass it down the generations or keep it in case of economic collapse as it must be worth more than its weight in gold?
A great example is the much fabled Mauser 98, as brought up by @Kalahari . If it is such a good action, why doesn't every sporting rifle use that design? The Ruger M77 and CZ series of rifles certainly do, but push feed bolts with Sako or M16/AR15 style extractors are now the norm.
Manufacturing costs are usually the culprit but designs have moved towards the fact that modern sporting bolt action rifles are almost inevitably used with scopes and detachable magazines, and the older designs came out when iron sights and fixed magazines with stripper clips were the mainstay. Look how WW1 and 2 saw military rifles being modified to fit riflescopes, yet even the best examples from that era struggle to keep pace with modern 'off the shelf' offerings. For a deeper dive, look up the USMC M40 or US Army M24 rifle programs to see how they evolved from what was basically a tuned up sporting rifle (Rem 700) to a fully fledged chassis system.
Sure, there are people who are willing to pay premium prices for something that is both old and obsolete yet still functional (I collect stalking telescopes that fall into that category). Just because designs have moved on does not mean the old ones no longer work, but there is a reason why designs change and not all of those reasons are cost cutting measures.
The new Land Rover Defender came out and most people's initial reaction (including my own) was to scoff at it. Having driven a couple of 110's (ancient and modern) I now realise why the design was ditched, it was flawed from the beginning. However, emotional connections will always prevail as it is a British icon.
And leather trim?
8x57
Distinguished Member
I think you've made some very good points caberslash. I think we are all guilty of "nostalgia factor" when looking back at the previous designs of anything. I've often done it myself. The new model is never as good as previous models, or so we tend to think. Occasionally this may very well be true but in the main after a few years either the new design tends to grow on us or we simply realise that we weren't really appreciating that time has moved on.
P.S.
a) I hate Land Rovers, driven too many of them through work to have any sort of appreciation for them.
b) I like the look of the S20 but will probably not change my 85 as I'm quite happy with it and it does everything I want.
P.S.
a) I hate Land Rovers, driven too many of them through work to have any sort of appreciation for them.
b) I like the look of the S20 but will probably not change my 85 as I'm quite happy with it and it does everything I want.
8x57
Distinguished Member
Yes that's something that I don't understand on rifles. Nice as they may appear I wouldn't have thought that the current trend to fit leather inserts on some rifle stocks would be very practical from the point of durability. We already have some people complaining about the tackiness of soft feel synthetic stocks after only a few years exposure to the environment.
Not having handled an S20 I can't give a qualified comment. However I do own several older SAKOs and don't feel that the newest model is one that I would buy. I am sure that it will shoot accurately and provide it's owners with years of service but not for me.
SAKO like Steyr Mannlicher seem to of lost their way a bit. They both have a history of making fine rifles but the last 25 years or so has seen numerous failed attempts to create a new feature that the market needs. I am thinking about features like key concept, removable rear stock(exige?) The electronic shooter position gadget etc. Steyr also with the prohunter, SM12, monobloc etc. Cutting edge and avantgarde but.....
I realise that it is all about sales but not every new rifle is a step forward in anything but how much money they can charge. Same applies to scopes and knives etc.
Rant over and I don't have a problem with people buying/shooting or using whatever they want.
SAKO like Steyr Mannlicher seem to of lost their way a bit. They both have a history of making fine rifles but the last 25 years or so has seen numerous failed attempts to create a new feature that the market needs. I am thinking about features like key concept, removable rear stock(exige?) The electronic shooter position gadget etc. Steyr also with the prohunter, SM12, monobloc etc. Cutting edge and avantgarde but.....
I realise that it is all about sales but not every new rifle is a step forward in anything but how much money they can charge. Same applies to scopes and knives etc.
Rant over and I don't have a problem with people buying/shooting or using whatever they want.
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