Sako 75 and 85 rifles are obsolete, long live the S20

Yes. Although we, the British also had the in the Pattern '14 (T) probably best sniper's rifle also. I owned one once. It was a very nice piece of kit.
If my senility is in abeyance at the moment the pattern 14 was a modified mauser action though. Surely if you want CRF you need cock on opening to get the firing pin out of the way of the controlled round rising up out of the magazine, or timeing gets very tight? I have always believed that the undoubted superiority of the Lee Enfield as a battle rifle was more to do with the magazine capacity, twice that of competing rifles than much to do with the action.

David.
 
Well it was a truism after the first war that the British (includes the Commonwealth as Canada dropped the Ross pretty quickly) that the British had the best "battle rifle" the Germans the best "hunting rifle" and the Americans the best "snipers rifle" last time I looked this was a hunting forum!. :)

David.

I've heard that quote several times and certainly wouldn't disagree with it the sniper rifle is of course the 1903 Springfield. Now enfieldspares has suggested that the British pattern 14 Enfield might take that title but as both the P14 and the Springfield are developments of the K98, to the extent that royalties were paid to Mauser, it could be argued that you would only really be talking about two different rifles. Those being the Lee Enfield and the Mauser K98.
 
A bit of a departure from the thread, but my thoughts on Sako 85 v Tikka T3.... a bit of a story here!

I bought a new 85 synthetic stainless in 243 back in 2013, this was around £1400 at the time, this was my first stalking rifle, I then happened upon a new Tikka T3 hunter in 270 cal about six months later.

The Gunshop I purchased the T3 from was closing down and selling rifles for half price! I haggled a bit and got the T3 for an absolute bargain price of £350 with £100 worth of reloading gear thrown in! At the time these were about £850 in the Sportsman gun centre.

The only reason the rifle was still on the shelf was because of the calibre I believe.

This T3 in 270 with a 22 inch barrel wasn't threaded from the factory, so the Gunshop owner got it professionally threaded and proofed to make it more saleable, even then it still remained unsold in the shop for several years at full price apparently. After I bought it, I then acquired an unused new synthetic stock for it, also at a great price. I got the synthetic stock professionally dipped in a woodland camo pattern which makes it a bit unusual.

Comparisons between the two rifles -

Accuracy, both equally excellent!

The Trigger appears to be virtually identical in my opinion, the big advantage with the Sako 85 however is that you can open the bolt with a round in the chamber and the safety on, you have to disengage the safety on the T3 for this.

The magazine is far more substantial in the Sako 85 being made of metal, I also prefer the feature where you have to physically push the magazine up before it can be released, making it very unlikely that you will unwittingly drop the magazine and lose it, the T3 mag is very easy to drop!

The action, both are very good but I would say the Tikka T3 is slicker, though this may well be down the the Tikka's single stack 3 shot plastic magazine in comparison to the staggered 5 shot mag of the Sako.

Plastic bolt shroud and bottom metal on the Tikka v metal on the Sako,

I know that the latest new Tikka T3 has improved alot of the issues such as stock, bolt shroud etc.

In general I am more than happy to take either rifle stalking, I prefer the 270 cal over the 243 though, the bigger calibre just gives me more confidence when I pull the trigger.

Back to the thread though, It seems that every evolution of the Sako rifle is supposed to be a major improvement over its predecessor according to the manufacturer, well I suppose they would say that wouldn't they. In reality, for stalking purposes, will the latest Sako be a Major improvement over a 20 year old plus sako, very probably not.

Now if Sako could produce a very accurate stalking rifle, weighing around 5.5Lb or less, in a major calibre like 270 or 308, that recoiled no more than a standard weight 243, then that would be a major achievement! But I guess it's too difficult to work around the laws of physics at the moment, and no, the addition of the carbon fibre stock alone as in the Carbonlight or Carbonlight 2, doesn't achieve this!
 

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Quite frankly the 85 is overpriced compared to the T3 which has really seen more development recently. The cross over/factory precision style rifles are gaining popularity with other marques being ahead of the game so Sako need to try and catch up.

With the increase in aftermarket parts for the T3 it was always going to go one way for the 85. You could say why change something if it’s good but there is things you could improve on the 85 along with not boxing yourself into a corner with ring options unless you go for a picatinny which brings its own problems.

If Accuracy International added the T3 to their chassis list then I think they would make a lot of money to the expense of all the usual donor action manufacturers for builds - I’m not sure why they haven’t tbh.
 
I have always believed that the undoubted superiority of the Lee Enfield as a battle rifle was more to do with the magazine capacity, twice that of competing rifles than much to do with the action.

A 60 degree throw to open and a shorter bolt length is the bigger picture plus of course in WWI the huge disadvantage that bolt handle (and so too the firers right hand) on the Gewehr 98 obscured the firer's sight picture each time he worked the bolt. Pattern '14 definitely was cock on closing, as was, I believe, the Mauser 96. The Mauser 98 was however cock on opening.
 
A 60 degree throw to open and a shorter bolt length is the bigger picture plus of course in WWI the huge disadvantage that bolt handle (and so too the firers right hand) on the Gewehr 98 obscured the firer's sight picture each time he worked the bolt. Pattern '14 definitely was cock on closing, as was, I believe, the Mauser 96. The Mauser 98 was however cock on opening.
I have to agree, whoever specified that bolt handle never tried to use one in a hurry. The 60 degree lift is an advantage in use but there was a price to pay in strength. Still they seemed strong enough for the 303 flanged.

David.
 
Having owned sako 75s and 85s and I still own a sako trg I think the S20 will be a great rifle.
The weak points on the 75 and 85 for me were the tapered dovetail and the bedding system.
Both of these have been changed for the better with the S20.
I have shot a few other trgs as well as my own and every one has been a tack driver so I am glad to see a similar bedding system on the S20.
 
Having owned sako 75s and 85s and I still own a sako trg I think the S20 will be a great rifle.
The weak points on the 75 and 85 for me were the tapered dovetail and the bedding system.
Both of these have been changed for the better with the S20.
I have shot a few other trgs as well as my own and every one has been a tack driver so I am glad to see a similar bedding system on the S20.
I think that the bedding system is the last thing that people are complaining about to be honest.......
Nowt wrong with a TRG or TRGS.
 
Hi lads, the Sako S20 has just arrived in my neck of the woods last week! I had a chance to handle a 308, 243 and a 6.5x55 creed more.
Have to say the 6.5 c m with its 24" fluted barrel, ergonomic thumb hole grip and an integral picatinny scope rail, makes it a hell of a piece of kit.
Application is in and deposit paid! Can't wait to put a few rounds down it. Roll on Aug 1st.
 
“6.5x55 creed more”

That’s enough to get you virtually lynched around here mate.

If somehow you could repeat your misnomer alongside a reference to heads and head shots, I would be grateful.

But I agree, the S20 in 6.5 Creedmoor is a very attractive rifle, unfortunately they are silly expensive here, for what they are which is a (relatively) mass produced product. Ludicrous. I can buy Howa barrelled actions in .204 Ruger, 6.5 Grendel, .300 BLK and .22-250 Rem to slot into my KRG chassis, and have enough left over for the dies, powder, 100 bullets and 100 brass in each.
 
Optional drone fitment attachment and thermal attachment via thumbhole to make 100% certainty one gets ones deer every outing.
 
Looking into the future My take is that the Sako 85 needs upgrades. The bedding of the 85 is in my opinion lousy. We had a closer look at a Carbolight recently that had accuracy issues. Late plate went into the bin and we bedded with an ordinary T3 recoil lug. Why could Sako not epoxy bed? The carbolight stock is well made but the bedding solution bad. I think the 85 needs a re-design. Maybe Sako is testing the market with the S20 as a replacement for the A7 just to see what the next steps are for the 85. Not much pressure for Sako anyway as they have the T3 which is a better design than any Sako to date in my opinion.
edi
 
Looking into the future My take is that the Sako 85 needs upgrades. The bedding of the 85 is in my opinion lousy. We had a closer look at a Carbolight recently that had accuracy issues. Late plate went into the bin and we bedded with an ordinary T3 recoil lug. Why could Sako not epoxy bed? The carbolight stock is well made but the bedding solution bad. I think the 85 needs a re-design. Maybe Sako is testing the market with the S20 as a replacement for the A7 just to see what the next steps are for the 85. Not much pressure for Sako anyway as they have the T3 which is a better design than any Sako to date in my opinion.
edi
I've never seen the 85 recoil lug arrangement but have just looked it up. Wow, what an overcomplex mess.
 
I've never seen the 85 recoil lug arrangement but have just looked it up. Wow, what an overcomplex mess.
Leads to a few mm left right movement at the forend. You can choose the position where one tightens the action.
edi
 
It has been suggested that an AI mag does fit the sako 75, if you ever want a 10 round single stack mag (with only a small adjustment to the mag, not the rifle in any way)....
Plenty info out there...
 
Hi lads, the Sako S20 has just arrived in my neck of the woods last week! I had a chance to handle a 308, 243 and a 6.5x55 creed more.
Have to say the 6.5 c m with its 24" fluted barrel, ergonomic thumb hole grip and an integral picatinny scope rail, makes it a hell of a piece of kit.
Application is in and deposit paid! Can't wait to put a few rounds down it. Roll on Aug 1st.
Interesting, I've just got entirely the reverse opinion from someone who had one on order and has returned it: "Sent it back without even mounting the scope". It will be a personal preference but the stock is hollow and it doesn't feel substantial...the action seems pretty good I have to say". I'm hoping we have different preferences as I have a .308 on order. If anyone is interested, he sent the 6.5 Creedmor back to Cluny Guns.
 
Sold my 85 a while back due to substandard accuracy. The recoil lug arrangement is poor and the rifles overpriced, you should not have issues like the ones previously mentioned in £2,600 rifle like the Carbonlight. Much better options out there.
 
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